You support Bush?

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 13 Oct 2006, 15:51

SwiftSpear wrote:It seriously enrages me how much talk of pulling out there is going on right now. WOW, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS, A POLITICAL VACCUME IN THE MIDDLE EAST! I'm very far from a right winger, but as a human being who is not evil I don't see how there is any ethical ground for pulling out of Iraq.

I used to think that, but now I'm not so sure.

The problem is that the Arabs (Sunnis) and Persians (Shiites) have been sorta like the ARM and the CORE, locked in an eternal struggle since like forever ago. For both sides the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other. [edit]It was probably actually started when the Shiites split from the Sunnis... sort of like the ARM splitting off from the CORE... [/edit]

Saddam was Sunni, and he persecuted the Shiites. Now Saddam is gone, along with his strong government, so the Shiites and Sunnis are yet again free to kill each other. And we are now the government that is trying to stop that, and they want us gone.

So staying in Iraq and trying to build a strong government that still allows freedom is fighting an uphill battle. A strong government is possible, but it would end up like Saddam's regime, and depending on who is in charge it may harbor terrorists. And many if not most of the Iraqis want us gone, and they are turning to terrorism to get us out. Which is bad for our soldiers.

But completely pulling out would be bad, bad, bad. There is a lot of oil in Iraq, and we want some control of it. Also, eventually one side would win in Baghdad, and it would probably set up a Saddam-esq regime to retain power. Or even worse a Taliban-esq regime, as what happened when Russia pulled out of Afganistan.

So I think the solution is to just divide the country in three. Shiites in one country, Sunnis in another, and then just start formally recognising the Kurds as a country in the north. Because there is really no good reason for any of Iraqs borders; I believe it was created to give some Arab king who helped us in WWI a place to rule.

But I don't know how best to get from the current state of Iraq to three stable seperate countries.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 16:03

Well now that you've put it in TA terms I think I understand what everyone is talking about

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 13 Oct 2006, 17:11

Politics is a joke, I don't support anyone. Politicians only need two things: the ability to lie while looking someone straight in the face, and a good speechwriter. As an added bonus, the ability to play on the public's fear to their own advantage is good.

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 13 Oct 2006, 17:26

Caydr wrote:Politics is a joke, I don't support anyone. Politicians only need two things: the ability to lie while looking someone straight in the face, and a good speechwriter. As an added bonus, the ability to play on the public's fear to their own advantage is good.

I should be a politician...

I'm good at lieing..

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 13 Oct 2006, 18:58

PARLAMENTARISM FTW.

Keithus · Post by **Keithus** » 13 Oct 2006, 22:16

Well seeing as I am not from America I obviously dont support George Bush. I guess in other countries you kinda get a almost "birdseye" view of other countries. No offense to the Americans and I aint gonna say New Zealand is free of it either but you all only see the positives of George Bush's campaigns. If you see something negative about him in the American media its because it slipped through the protective net that he uses to keep people misinformed or unimformed. I will probably recieve alot of flak for this post but if anyone from America came and lived in another country long enough to see what has happened. However its been the same with almost all past presidents.
The thing that amazes me the most is that Bush (not to mention past presidents aswell) has all of America believing they live in a superior country, which in a sense they do. Not sure that anyone in America has noticed but your fuel prices are approximatly half of most other countries, why? Because a certain country that your forces are in happens to be one of the powers in the world oil-wise.
I must be honest, one of the reasons most countries hate America is because they wish they could be like America, hell I wish New Zealand was America. That doesnt make it right however, its like saying I wish I had that bully's stick so I can go whack people I dont like and take their stuff too.

I expect some flamming for this, but meh!

Candleman · Post by **Candleman** » 13 Oct 2006, 22:20

I think it's funny that we (americans) think it's a crisis with gas prices at $3, and I hear (I dunno if it's true) that gas prices in the UK have been $5 for years.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:24

Keithus, I sure hope you're not going to get flamed, as its not your fault you don't live here, but America is NOT all one name, all one race, all one opinion. Thats one of the rasons I love it, by the way

So we don't all support Bush, and his ideas are far from popular. Also I really wish that insted of being proud of having the BEST army in the world, why not the BEST space program, or best school system or best alternate energy source. And if we put all our funding FROM millitary into our space program, I say colony on Mars in four years, tops...and I know how to make it profitable, too. Its a book called "Mars Direct" and you should check it out. Nice way to make money off space travel.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:28

I would love to take the the money we spend on welfare and spend it on the space program.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:30

Not to be uninformed wetblanket, but...don't people need the wellfare?

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:35

why? Because a certain country that your forces are in happens to be one of the powers in the world oil-wise.

O.o
no about 70% of the UK petrol price is tax, im not sure what it is in america but i do know that if the govt slashed petrol (you get taxed on the freaking tax! xD) taxes then it would be far closer to the price (then again we do have north sea oil i guess...)

On another note i really hope the UK govt does a big blag and convinces other countries "OMG WE HAEV KEWL SUPA WPNS L00K AT US LOL" but actually doesn't replace our trident missiles and spends it on better things!

e: Zoombie trains planes and boats all use oil / oil derivatives. I can but hope you know that and its part of the joke

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:37

I use a bike, so the 'Oil scare'...dosn't scare me. And its a damn good bike. I can go...ten, twenty miles on it. Anyfarther I commute in either a train or a plane. Or...a BOAT!

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:42

Zoombie wrote:I use a bike, so the 'Oil scare'...dosn't scare me. And its a damn good bike. I can go...ten, twenty miles on it. Anyfarther I commute in either a train or a plane. Or...a BOAT!

Electricity is produced primarily from oil based power plants. Electricity is responsible for virtually every commodity in the world. Peak oil would mean a economic depression would strike that would be at least twice as serious as the great depression of the 1930s. Enjoy your bike ^_^

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:45

Stop confusing me with facts!

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:47

No zoombie, people don't need welfare. With the probable exception of people who are physically unable to work. Mentally doesn't count, as "dig there" isn't hard for anybody other than a vegetable to figure out.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:55

Decimator wrote:No zoombie, people don't need welfare. With the probable exception of people who are physically unable to work. Mentally doesn't count, as "dig there" isn't hard for anybody other than a vegetable to figure out.

In capitalist society people need welfare because there is no force guaranteeing that they are able to make the money they need to survive trough legal work.

The percentage of people getting welfare in the United States that do not legitimately need it is virtually nonexistent. It would cost significantly more money to track down those who don't rightfully receive welfare then would be saved if they did not get paid welfare. There really is no ethical way to skim any more money out of the welfare system without just letting people starve and die, reduced welfare funds will hurt only those who actually need the welfare, those who don't would be inconvenienced but otherwise unharmed. This is more true in the states then almost any other first world country.

Frankly the commonly held assumption that welfare is the giving of money to people who don't deserve it is borderline retarded.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:58

SwiftSpear wrote:
Zoombie wrote:I use a bike, so the 'Oil scare'...dosn't scare me. And its a damn good bike. I can go...ten, twenty miles on it. Anyfarther I commute in either a train or a plane. Or...a BOAT!
Electricity is produced primarily from oil based power plants. Electricity is responsible for virtually every commodity in the world. Peak oil would mean a economic depression would strike that would be at least twice as serious as the great depression of the 1930s. Enjoy your bike ^_^

move to Sweden, 40% coverd by nuclear power and 40% coverd by water power!

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 13 Oct 2006, 23:59

Now If we could only get some of that action in America. But noooo, those stupid OIL COMPANIES just HAAVE to make money...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 14 Oct 2006, 00:02

Kixxe wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:
Zoombie wrote:I use a bike, so the 'Oil scare'...dosn't scare me. And its a damn good bike. I can go...ten, twenty miles on it. Anyfarther I commute in either a train or a plane. Or...a BOAT!
Electricity is produced primarily from oil based power plants. Electricity is responsible for virtually every commodity in the world. Peak oil would mean a economic depression would strike that would be at least twice as serious as the great depression of the 1930s. Enjoy your bike ^_^
move to Sweden, 40% coverd by nuclear power and 40% coverd by water power!

Still, when every other major economy in the world crashes they will definitely feel the sting. If almost every large first world nation could reach that point however...

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 14 Oct 2006, 00:04

How about the 13 million or so illegals sucking us dry, Swift? Do they deserve welfare? They're receiving it... Not only that, but hunger is a great and powerful motivator. People will not starve and die, they will get hungry, go work, make money, and eat.

Spring RTS Engine

You support Bush?

You support Bush?