Upgrading a Computer

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:09

Dell still sucks. :)

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 12 Oct 2006, 23:52

the dell dimension 4600 is a very very very solid and cheap PC. 3 GHz (no OC though :<, in its defense it runs silent) PLENTY of space (drone >.>), one problem for idiots may be it has no PCI-e slot...but really what sort of idiot buys one of those things? maybe in the distant future, but until then conventional graphics cards are MORE than enough. Time it right to get 1 Ghz of RAM. don't expect anything from the card you get but at overclockers.uk you can get a amazing card for 100 pounds (compatible of course).
Unfortunately if you already have a screen ,keyboard etc its a much better idea to get a custom built PC. But i stand by my dell, i'm quite impressed with it. Oh and its all colour themed lol! sort of a dull black which i've come to love!

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 00:11

I think I'll custom mine, it can eat a lot of dells I have seen, and for half the price too..

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 01:11

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 13 Oct 2006, 01:12

Keep in mind that your actual price will be approximately %250 above what your "end price" ends up being on their website. I got a computer for about $1200, and will end up actually paying $4000 for it over 4 years.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 01:14

I am not going to be buying this over time. I am going to get it all at once.. I don't think I'll be spending any more than that..

Muzic · Post by **Muzic** » 13 Oct 2006, 01:39

You could get what im getting Its 1500CAD W/ Tax (13%)

7900GTO - 300 ( on a limited run, so you might have to settle with a x1900xt 256mb or 7900GS, the x1900xt is on par if not better then my GTO, i got GTO becuase of higher Res. )
Intel Core 2 duo e6300 - 220
Samsung P point 250gig - 80
Asus P5NSLI - 130
Antec Sonata II Case - 100
2gigs of OCZ Ram - 270
LG DVD/CD RW - 30

It would actually be 1370-1400, but i had a pretty keyboard and speakers <3

Oh and ofcourse that doesnt include anything fancy software. Windows = Free from family

20" Dell2005FPW = Free, from family

Building = Brother and I

And if your American, which im guessing, thats around 1200 with tax <3 So youd have enough for a 19" moniter. My rig is basically good enough for anything at the moment, i wouldnt upgrade unti maybe 6 months. My money is going to software.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 01:43

I am trying to keep it in the thousand range... So I guess I'll stay like this, and upgrade my vid card ASAP...

1/4 of the people say they got artifacts and junk on reviews.. But Drivers fixed it.. Heheh

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 13 Oct 2006, 04:44

Min3mat wrote:the dell dimension 4600 is a very very very solid and cheap PC.

w00t!

Code: Select all

  +-----------+
  ||[=======]||
  ||      "" ||
  ||[=======]||
  ||      "" ||
  ||=(=:)====||
  ||`````.```||
  ||  `(o)   ||
  ||         ||
  ||   (D)   ||
  |.\_______/.|
  |``\=====/``|
  |[][](=.)...|

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 13 Oct 2006, 05:02

Emphasis on cheap.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 13 Oct 2006, 06:24

I wouldn't get the graphics card. The artifacting problem sounds like too big a deal and it sounds fairly common. You're spending an obnoxious amount on power supply and case IMO since neither really give any performance boost to the PC as a whole. Other then that it looks like a pretty solid machine of the current gen there, and you certainly won't have to replace the case the next time you upgrade, which will be nice.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 12:54

Meh, the person who recommended the case said that the power supply that comes with it is shit, and I am going to get a long lasting PSU.. I will see what else cards I can get for graphics

Edit: I am going to get this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 814102003R - Saphire Radeon X1900XT, I can't find any other nVidia cards that were as good as the last for somewheres around 270..

Or this X1900XT http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102051

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 13 Oct 2006, 13:19

the 1900 series is a WONDERFUL card...

I'll look over your specs and throw any conflicts/advice..

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 13:23

Yeah, I was suprised to see them at 250-350$

So far I think this is a good setup.. It probably is going to cost a good bit over a thousand though.. Any I plan on OC'ing some things, so if I can see if it gets too hot. I know I have enough power, hehe

Since the x1900xt cost the same as my last one, the total price was 1432 I think.. Including taxes and S+H..

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 13 Oct 2006, 14:51

Compatibility issues:

RAM : MoBo (RAM 667MHz, MoBo 800MHz) (you need to replace the ram specification)

CD/DVD drive ITS A LAPTOP DRIVE!!!!

Component Issues:

1) the processor.. you WANT a big L2 cache..the bigger the better, at LEAST 1mb, a dual 512kb cache, isn't bad, but a dual 1024 cache, LEET... Its only like 30$ more, and about a 30% performance increase on CPU intensive programs

2) VERY pretty mobo, the only drawback is a lack of dual memory controllers... not too big of deal, but for 300$ I'd want dual controllers... the 4slots at 2GB each, is BEAUTIFUL.. it'll last a long time.. not to mention can support the "multi-board" vid-cards

3) the case, looks poor for a front "in" for ventilation, not TOO big of deal, since the side input will blow right over the PCI slots... but again, might want to check the front of the case for a fan slot, or possibly consider watercooling to PULL any heat from the CPU outside the case before dissipation...

the case isn't a drawback though, just a precaution, namely if you overclock..

4) the RAM... DON'T CUT CORNERS ON YOUR RAM!!! I "kinda" cut a corner and got a 2 gig kit of GEIL 667MHz DDR2 ram kit.. and well... now it sits on my coffee table.. (it DIED on over volting)... and for 230$.. GO GET OCZ ram TRUST ME! its faster 800mhz, tighter timings, has a lifetime warranty, and EVEN overvolts better, and is guaranteed with Extreme Overvolting EVP up to 2.2 VOLTS!!!! thats INSANE! beautiful to overclock or go nuts, or go hot with...... linky:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/m ... al_channel
Purchase linky: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... C-d3alt1me
the revision 2 OCZ, is a bit more $$$ (50$)... but its better, I'm running the revision 1 2 GB kit (1 @ 1 GB each) on my tower, I LOVE IT.. the stuff is like a tank... and the revision 2 is better than it, its f'in fantastic!
not to mention your board is CONFIGURED for 800 mhz ram.. with the 667 you have picked, it won't even post the BIOS...

5) HDDS are fun to play with, HDDS can make, or break, your system... you get a LOOOOOONG seek speed HDD, lol, its worthless except for mass data storage.. you want to get TOP speed drives, (not nessicirally RPM) and not huge drives either, and put them in a RAID 0..

RAID systems are fabtacular, two drives, twice the read/write speed, 4 drives, 4x... but you have to use either 2 or 4 on a single "readable" drive... if you put 3 drives in the system, like I have, run the solo one for windows (incase the RAID system fails) and the other 2 as a D: or E: or whatever, and install all your demading programs and games on it.. you'll pee yourself on load speeds... I can load 3DSMax8 in 3 seconds...

your drive specs: (the important ones):
Cache 8MB
Average Seek Time 8.9ms
Average Latency 4.2ms
Data Transfer Rate 300MBps (did some research for this)

(These are good seek speeds for the drive, and fairly nice data transfer speeds, but by itself, at only 7200 RPM, its slow...)

($ : GB ratio) 70$ : 200GB (.35c / GB)

reccomendations.. multiple drives, gets expensive fast though, I paid about 200$ for my three drives... and I'm only at 120GB

6) CD rom is a CD rom, I'd use the old one, and can the new one, unless its a DVDR

EDIT!!!!!!

AAAAAK!! the CDROM you picked is for a LAPTOP!!!!! pick another!!!

7) for a video card, GET THE ONE HERE you listed, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 814102003R

DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER THE OTHER!!!... this one is 10$ more, TWICE the ram, FASTER CLOCK SPEEDS!, and I guarantee you, it'll get about 30% MORE FPS!!!!...... its a BARGAIN....

I'm gonna do some more research on the HDD's.... lots of new things out

I've been lookin at HDDS for about an hour now... I'll find a better RAID setup for you within the same $ range...

so far, I'd say an extra 50$ is WELL spent to make the two changes I've mentioned..

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 13 Oct 2006, 15:26

if you wanna see your HDD SING!!! ooooh man, wow fast...

look at getting 2 of these for your "gaming" drive....

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp ... 25&loc=SHZ

they ARE NOT cheap.... hell... at 130 apiece... they will make your CPU cost ALOT F'in more... but if you want to make your computer SCREAM through games that pause all the time for loads (DOOM3, OBLIVION, HL2, most anything that dosen't pre-load EVERYTHING.. lol 99% of everything).. this kinda setup is WHAT YOU WANT!!
RAID RULES!! This setup is about 300% FASTER than the setup you picked... (though 25% less drive space..) at a price 3.5x as high... (if you want to spend the $, this is worth it)

to save 40$ you "could" deal with a single drive... http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... st=bizrate (150 GB) and it'll be nice.... but still.. to save ~15.38% in cost... you cut ~40% of your read/write speed... this is about 50% faster than your current pick, 25% less space, but at a price, 3x as high....

hell... 2 cheap HDD's (it'll die and piss ya off when you have to replace it...) but yeah, will blow the doors off a single fancy drive...

I'll look for some "decient" cheap ones and post it...

ok ok... "Mainstream" drive... Seagate, has VERY MUCH blown the competition away on reliability in the last 4 years, honestly... read up yourself...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822148107

THERE IS ONE CHEAP @
http://www.techforless.com/cgi-bin/tech ... pc=bizrate
save 12$

this drive is 80 GB.. at 50$ it reads/writes/transfers at slightly faster speeds than the western digital you picked.. (at approx 8% @ 8.9ms seek vs 8.161ms seek) put two of them together... you get ~185% the read write speed compared to the speed of the drive you picked from western digital.. two of these sitting in at ~100$ vs the western at 79.99$ is a 20% increase in cost, a 185% increase in performance, but a drop in 20% of space... do you REALLY need 200 gigs of HDD??? I mean seriously.. I have 80gigs aside for all my games and heavy programs, and I've only filled 29.1 gigs... (games loaded- Battlezone2, DOOM3, Dungeon Siege, EVE, Freeciv, Freelancer, Hegemonia, HOMMV, LSL Magna Cum Lade, Mechwarrior 2, 3, 4, Oblivion+mods, Quake2, Quake3, Quake4, Savage, TA Spring, HL 2, some extras, some install files, and then programs, MAX8, Vue 5, ACAD-ACDT 2006, Photoshop, and some smaller ones...)

now, you have 185% the speed on your drive, at 20% extra cost.. whoopdie doo on 40 gigs lost space... (you still have 160)

if you WANT to... with 4 of these, it'll effectively run at ~375% as fast (you lose some due to the fact RAID systems aren't 100% efficient, but nearly) and yeah, it'll only cost you about 200$ for 320 gigs, running GOBS faster than the one you picked, and you would be the envy of just about everyone in a 3 zipcode radius...

minus the leet speaking nerds who never leave their homes...

Numerical chart anaysis of seagate drives:
http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/dis ... 22,00.html just so you know I'm not full of crap

but yeah, my advice, put a pair of seagate 80GB drives in there instead, if not 4.... and RAID-0 them!

you could, if you are paranoid of raid systems failing, cause it CAN happen, put 3 drives in your system, say a 20-40 gig drive and load winblows on the solo 3rd... (it'll load windows slightly slower if the drive is crummy in the 20-40$ range) but it'll kickass for games still... and be bulletproof

due note though, that you are limited at 4 drives, no more... and ANY RAID system has to use IDENTICAL drives, down to the model.. just cause they are the same speed, the same size, and the same cache.. dosen't mean they will work... so yeah, to upgrade, you'd have to replace everything... but meh, if you need faster than that, you'll need a new board too...

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 13 Oct 2006, 18:03

Get a shit graphics card now (I'd recommend an X1600. Mines served me well, running spring at 1280X1024, with full detail and no lag, And most other games for that matter (It handles oblivion well, even with hdr :O), they are only 50├é┬ú)
Because When DirectX ten comes out, The Expenseive cards are rendered crap by the inability to run DX10 well.
(DirectX ten cards can apparantly run dx9 games 800% better, according to microsoft)

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 13 Oct 2006, 18:15

And Windows XP was 900 times better than 2000. Well they maybe right this time as Vista's architechture was developed from scratch.

Personally I'd wait until the first affordable quadcores and DX10 cards are out and then get something which is fairly good at costs and performance (like the X2 3800). If you really need a new one now then do what drone said, though it's wasted since you'll probably be upgrading again next year.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 13 Oct 2006, 20:34

Damn u and ur super links lathan!!! damn u!!!

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 13 Oct 2006, 22:47

One of 'em looks like a CD drive, lol..

Edit: I think I'll take the 150 GB 1.5GB/s one, heheheh

Edit: The older one I had said it had 3 GB/s a sec... WtF!?

edit2: Shit, I could load oblivion in like 3 seconds with that one...

1576$ Whaaah! Ah well, my dad is going to give me 1000$ and I got 510$

I should be able to persuade him to get me a little more than 1000, then let my money earn its way..

Spring RTS Engine

Upgrading a Computer