Absolute Annihilation 2.23

[Egarwaen]

Perhaps you can remove the stop sounds, I don't see how they can be usefull anyway ?

They're part of Caydr's plan to take over the world through constantly repeating audio clips with embedded subliminal messages.

if thats the only usefullness i guess we can remove them safely :)

Obviously you haven't completed your program. You'll now have to listen to "FARK Stopping" twenty times a minute for six hours.

[LordMatt]

I know I'm a noob and probably shouldn't be making suggestions in this thread. Looking back on it I was actually exaggerating and it was a someone who knows what they're doing vs somebody who didn't (it wasn't me defending). My point that corvettes should do better against them still stands though.

However, most players of Spring are not doing it on an expert level or in tournaments. Although Cadyr shouldn't be making balance suggestions based on somebody saying "OMG SKEETS DESTROYED MY SHIPYARD OVERPOWERED!!!111" there shouldn't be anything wrong with saying what you've experienced

e: Actually, what does defend against a scout rush? This isn't sarcasm or anything I'm just not really sure.

The two best ways to defend against a skeet rush are to build a torpedo launcher or a corvette (and use your com to repair the corvette). Either of these will stop skeeters with ease. If you do these things, you will see that skeets are in no way overpowered, and hence my criticisim of your post. Here is a demo for you to watch. In it I messed up at the start (e-stalled building the torpedo launcher) and thus lost my shipyard to an inital skeet rush. Also I had an ally who was mostly useless, but still won the game. The game is a good exhibition of what to do, and what not to do on a small sea battle map.

[rattle]

They're part of Caydr's plan to take over the world through constantly repeating audio clips with embedded subliminal messages.

if thats the only usefullness i guess we can remove them safely :)

Obviously you haven't completed your program. You'll now have to listen to "FARK Stopping" twenty times a minute for six hours.

And add soundtrigger=1; to the d-gun pretty please. There's nothing worse than getting bitched at cause I forgot to turn the volume down when some noob pratices d-gunning.

[Deathblane]

Depends, if it's a land sea map you can cover the rear with a llt, or get your comm to stand out of the water, and the torp launcher can usually be built to provide a major defense.
Thing is you are more vulnerable to being rushed on water maps (especially on low resources) and sometimes there's nothing you can do.

[LordMatt]

Thing is you are more vulnerable to being rushed on water maps (especially on low resources) and sometimes there's nothing you can do.

Not true. It may be that you aren't good enough to beat some people, but there are ways of getting back into the water against most people even if you lose it pretty badly. Also, not all strats are created equal and you can't complain if you routinely lose because your strat is suboptimal. That is not a question of mod balance though.

[Ishach]

The enemy can build on top of cloakable mexes and both units become impossible to target afaik.

[Neddie]

That has been reported for E&E as well, it isn't a mod-dependent issue.

[SpikedHelmet]

Lol.

[EXit_W0und]

With respect to the sub/destroyer balance: would it be an idea to make depth charges more inaccurate? Or to reduce destroyer LOS? It's probably not good to make real life comparisons but depth charges in ww2 were hardly accurate weapons which is probably why subs had a (slightly) better chance against destroyers in those circumstances.

The whole point of subs is that they're hard to detect, so why not emphasise that.

[Ishach]

The whole point of subs is that they're hard to detect, so why not emphasise that.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Good idea here

[griph]

Heh, even better, just take the sonar off the destroyers and double the sonar station range. Make them defensive antisub units.

[EXit_W0und]

Is it possible to use scripting to have a sonar jammer enabled only when the sub is stationary? This might have the desired effect.

[Ishach]

Is it possible to use scripting to have a sonar jammer enabled only when the sub is stationary? This might have the desired effect.

This is a cool idea, but i dont know how practical it would be.

It'd turn subs into mobile-static defence

[KDR_11k]

Or the equivalent of a minefield.

[Soulless1]

surely the best way is just to increase the inaccuracy of depth charges, but make them rely on blast radius to do damage? In fact, AFAIK with the new version of spring we have the opportunity to make depth charges a lot more like they were in real life (which while on its own is not essential, would be good for game balance in this case).

EG you could make depth charges into ballistic weapons launched through the air that when hitting the water, fire off another projectile (same graphic) that drifts downwards and explodes with a reasonable radius at typical submarine depth.

Both 'weapons' would look like a depth charge, its just a way of getting around the water barrier.

[EXit_W0und]

Are subs practically invisible when under sonar jamming as they were in ota? Or do they show up within Los? I only intend to make them harder to see on sonar not invisible. I think reducing the sonar range of destroyers and making depth charges a bit more inaccurate (but more powerful) is a better option.
I don't think subs are really meant to take destroyers head on - they should be able to evade them more easily though - so anything which allows them to do this would be nice.

Edit: Just read soulless' post, that sounds ideal.

[Ishach]

[Superior]Zirjin is working on a sea-balancing variant at the moment.


I trust he'll make some good changes seeing as they play almost exclusively sea maps and hopefully it can be merged into AA proper.

[EXit_W0und]

Cool, what's it called? So i can go test it :)

[MR.D]

Now what if Subs were cloakable, but not stealth?

That might improve their chances in Destroyer engagements.

It would still leave a sonar blip, but untill they decloak to fire they would have better odds of getting close to destroyers.

I wouldn't advise leaving cloaks for the Super Subs, but for LVL1 and for entry LVL-2 Subs this might be a valuable idea.

I don't think that making subs 100% stealth, or jammed would be smart, then they would be insanly hard to kill.

[LordMatt]

Destroyers already have vastly reduced sonar coverage. I think that some of these more radical suggestions would make subs overpowered in a hurry. Better to make sure their torpedoes hit targets they only have sonar coverage on, and give them enough range to hit destroyers and static defenses without being targeted themselves. Then you have a useful sub without changing current sea balance too much.