XTA
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I noticed XTA being kind of broken by this 'noautofire=1' bug. Gollies, and some defence cannons, don't auto fire. I suggest putting out a XTA 7.1 release that fixes just this problem, just so XTA isn't bugged anymore.
Plz, release just this XTA 7.1 asap. Not with other changes, let that be discussed some more, but just with this fix. Then it can be included in the upcoming .73b2 update, so ppl can enjoy XTA again.
On the subject of the Zippers/Crashers balance; maybe try putting out some beta's, so more ppl can testplay and see what works best? Will generate some more publicity, too. Which is good
I noticed XTA being kind of broken by this 'noautofire=1' bug. Gollies, and some defence cannons, don't auto fire. I suggest putting out a XTA 7.1 release that fixes just this problem, just so XTA isn't bugged anymore.
Plz, release just this XTA 7.1 asap. Not with other changes, let that be discussed some more, but just with this fix. Then it can be included in the upcoming .73b2 update, so ppl can enjoy XTA again.
On the subject of the Zippers/Crashers balance; maybe try putting out some beta's, so more ppl can testplay and see what works best? Will generate some more publicity, too. Which is good
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
err AND ME! 73(-) |\/|!6(-)7y 6!z|\/|0
Expect the beta to be out by 11 2night!
Im cramming in sfx as i type so u beta testers out there will have something to dribble at till the project goes gold n public release.
I will release a full change log l8er 2 night.
No more tester requests plz, i have enough thank-you.
Expect the beta to be out by 11 2night!
Im cramming in sfx as i type so u beta testers out there will have something to dribble at till the project goes gold n public release.
I will release a full change log l8er 2 night.
No more tester requests plz, i have enough thank-you.
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
Heres the change log http://homepage.eircom.net/~cncdls/ChangeLog.txt
And a reminder to the chosen testers, the beta is not for public release.It is neither accepted by SJ or by anny means finalised (seeming myspelling sucks on the load screans
)
PLZ put CONSTRUCTIVE criticism below, thank-you.
If you are a tester and didnt get the offline msn msg plz mail me/PM me on msn/or PM in the lobby.
And a reminder to the chosen testers, the beta is not for public release.It is neither accepted by SJ or by anny means finalised (seeming myspelling sucks on the load screans
)PLZ put CONSTRUCTIVE criticism below, thank-you.
If you are a tester and didnt get the offline msn msg plz mail me/PM me on msn/or PM in the lobby.
It's minor but you may have an easier time getting some decent colours if you use the rgbcolor and rgbcolor2 tags instead of color1 and color2. At least I find it annoying to go through the entire palette. rgbcolor takes three arguments from 0 to 1, floating point, i.e. rgbcolor=0.5 0.5 1.0 would be RGB 128 128 255.
About the changelog, it's a bit unclear and messy atm, might want to clean it up a bit. At least I find it hardly readable, opinions might differ.
Personally I like the changes to the Spider and Zipper/Freaker, hopefully it doesn't render them totally useless but stops early raids or makes them less effecient.
About the changelog, it's a bit unclear and messy atm, might want to clean it up a bit. At least I find it hardly readable, opinions might differ.
Personally I like the changes to the Spider and Zipper/Freaker, hopefully it doesn't render them totally useless but stops early raids or makes them less effecient.
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
The zipper isn't nerfed enough. It is still too good for it's cost. A unit that fast, with over 700 hp, that does that much damage per second, that has that low a cost, is overpowered. It needs nerfing, not tweaking. Halve the damage, halve the hp, or double build time and metal cost, otherwise the zipper strategy will continue dominating in high level play. And it's a boring way to play, and it drives newbs off.
When you have overpowered units like the zipper, it reduces the viable strategy options. Every one has to play just so, because otherwise you are too vulnerable to a zipper. It's better and more interesting when there are more viable opening strategies.
Please, give it a serios nerf, or a serious cost increase. Either one will allow much more interesting play in the first 5 minutes.
When you have overpowered units like the zipper, it reduces the viable strategy options. Every one has to play just so, because otherwise you are too vulnerable to a zipper. It's better and more interesting when there are more viable opening strategies.
Please, give it a serios nerf, or a serious cost increase. Either one will allow much more interesting play in the first 5 minutes.
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
Well change log is messy but i just got a yummy goody
http://download.openoffice.org/2.0.3/co ... sion=2.0.3
This means a clearer change log will be produced soon enough when i have the time.
____________________________________________FAST_WEAPONS____________________________________________
And as for the fastweapons, GLEEEE! I thought everybody would be h8ing the Morty. The fast-w is so much more easyer to ballance, but i wanted to try little steps relayed through feedback to get it perfect.Thats what the beta is for!
I play as core, and i done a quick duel with myg last night. I sent a fast-w or 2 in, and so did myg.Personally i found the changes to core are emense, its attack is down 28% The ARM fast-w is down by 11% & both heal very slowly!!!
Arm fast-w is still at 750 and the core is now 775 which was reduced from 870 (NOT mentioned in the change log, ooop) thats allready -95 hitpoints.
For fine tuning its weapon damadge would have to put down a fraction, this is because its health per metal cost is just about right. (4.4x metal efficiant, where as a sumo is 4.3, Gimp 6.1 .....ect)
I am hoping that the fast-w are almost perfect as they are now, as most players play as Core these days. The Regenartion nerf along with slight dmg nerf + health nerf`should` be enough for most players, I hope. Eaven though the arm fast-w is mostly the same; im counting on the same healing tag to do its job.
This however is just my view, and ultamatly now u all know the full score (soz about changelog blip
) you can make an educated and playable dissition on anny more dmg nerfing 
____________________________________________________________________
Ow n FOE u mentioned the radar icons a week or so ago, do u still think u can fix them?
____________________________________________________________________
http://download.openoffice.org/2.0.3/co ... sion=2.0.3
This means a clearer change log will be produced soon enough when i have the time.
____________________________________________FAST_WEAPONS____________________________________________
And as for the fastweapons, GLEEEE! I thought everybody would be h8ing the Morty. The fast-w is so much more easyer to ballance, but i wanted to try little steps relayed through feedback to get it perfect.Thats what the beta is for!
I play as core, and i done a quick duel with myg last night. I sent a fast-w or 2 in, and so did myg.Personally i found the changes to core are emense, its attack is down 28% The ARM fast-w is down by 11% & both heal very slowly!!!
Arm fast-w is still at 750 and the core is now 775 which was reduced from 870 (NOT mentioned in the change log, ooop) thats allready -95 hitpoints.
For fine tuning its weapon damadge would have to put down a fraction, this is because its health per metal cost is just about right. (4.4x metal efficiant, where as a sumo is 4.3, Gimp 6.1 .....ect)
I am hoping that the fast-w are almost perfect as they are now, as most players play as Core these days. The Regenartion nerf along with slight dmg nerf + health nerf`should` be enough for most players, I hope. Eaven though the arm fast-w is mostly the same; im counting on the same healing tag to do its job.
This however is just my view, and ultamatly now u all know the full score (soz about changelog blip
) you can make an educated and playable dissition on anny more dmg nerfing ____________________________________________________________________
Ow n FOE u mentioned the radar icons a week or so ago, do u still think u can fix them?
____________________________________________________________________
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
You can't compare like that. Thinking that way, one would be trying to compare the HP/metal of the planes and making it similar to the ground units. The Sumo and the Gimp have 2 speeds. Slow and stoped. Zippers/Freakers are faster than a Brawler, i think, even though they are affected by terrain. They're HP/metal must be a half-way value between ground units and airplanes.[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:...
Arm fast-w ...
For fine tuning its weapon damadge would have to put down a fraction, this is because its health per metal cost is just about right. (4.4x metal efficiant, where as a sumo is 4.3, Gimp 6.1 .....ect)
...
The dmg in the Jethro/Crasher for ground is now 67% of what it used to be. In the vehicles, it is down to <80%.
The Zipper now has 88% of it's previous damage and the Freaker 71%. and zipper still has same HP.
As Foe said, even without me testing it, they are not downed nearly enough. If they owned previously, they will still continue to own, maybe even more.
But .. that scouting action (make that «scouts raping all») has always been the trademark of XTA, it seems. There was even a old cartoon about it.
I'm not sure i agree with the lvl-2 bombers having more HP. The lvl-1 ones yes but .. not the lvl-2.
As a note, i like to study mods by values. You seem to also do that, calculating amounts of HP per metal cost.
I recently began trying to rebalance TLL. I found out that weapons never give the amounts of dmg we intend to.
For example, i made a LLT shot a beam of 100 dmg. Units would only receive 40~60 of dmg. To a building it would give slightly more. I managed to make the beam give around 100 dmg if i puted it making huge craters and throwing units.
When made a laser (traveling), it would give similar to 100 but not quite.
Foe is using formulated balance in Xect vs Mynn, he must take care because of this, especially with the beams wich seem particularly bugged.
So, quite unfortunately, we can't rely too much on calculations.
I tried looking at the sources but it seems quite messy and hard to fix as it seems to be destributed around, the damage handling...
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
I fixed the icons on the beta of XTA 8. I made an icon for every TED Class but special. The icons aren't great, but they're there, and easy to replace.
I also halved zipper/freaker hp and damage, and increased the range of the hammer/thud to just a little less than llt range (330 -> 540, llt range is 550)
I call it XTA-FOTB Edition. I don't intend it to be a competitor to official XTA, but I think I will make it available so that people can try it out, and see if they agree with my ideas for the hammer and zipper bots.
I my changes work out, maybe they will get included in XTA 8.
I also halved zipper/freaker hp and damage, and increased the range of the hammer/thud to just a little less than llt range (330 -> 540, llt range is 550)
I call it XTA-FOTB Edition. I don't intend it to be a competitor to official XTA, but I think I will make it available so that people can try it out, and see if they agree with my ideas for the hammer and zipper bots.
I my changes work out, maybe they will get included in XTA 8.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
dude hammerers were already pretty own, with that range increase your going to need to knock down the dps otherwise rockos etc become reduantant.
zippers dont need halving hp, damage etc they just need an acceptable counter early and mid game. with a shorter range zipper that could be l1 infantry kbots. missle kbots are going to be pretty redundant in xta8 in terms of ground warfare, so infantry, rockos, thuds etc are all going to be back in fashion... and they are suck vs zips. missle towers were never a sufficent counter. what is the counter?
is the can going to be improved at some point? atm it sucks for its cost
zippers dont need halving hp, damage etc they just need an acceptable counter early and mid game. with a shorter range zipper that could be l1 infantry kbots. missle kbots are going to be pretty redundant in xta8 in terms of ground warfare, so infantry, rockos, thuds etc are all going to be back in fashion... and they are suck vs zips. missle towers were never a sufficent counter. what is the counter?
is the can going to be improved at some point? atm it sucks for its cost
a hammer with 550 range???
hm.. as its arty... could be.
but hammers already OWN.. imagine what happens if you give them more range.
Personally, have allways thought, zippers and freakers are ok.
Its the tool to stop porkers, yes those players that get 5 const. units at start.
yes, serioulsy, how do you stop THAT players?
thats more of a concern to me.
As for zipper "bands" (5 zippers), its much very related to the map.
In open maps, you are very vulnerable to this type of attack.
so, in open maps you SHOULD get stronger, wide cover defense.
because its due to the map, you know, the map is the game...
A shot from the BEST anti zipper base ive build (actual game).
9 Minutes ingame, red haven, a wide open map.
Same game, a base with a more vulnerable distribution.
So freakers do less damange than zippers now?
hm.. as its arty... could be.
but hammers already OWN.. imagine what happens if you give them more range.
Personally, have allways thought, zippers and freakers are ok.
Its the tool to stop porkers, yes those players that get 5 const. units at start.
yes, serioulsy, how do you stop THAT players?
thats more of a concern to me.
As for zipper "bands" (5 zippers), its much very related to the map.
In open maps, you are very vulnerable to this type of attack.
so, in open maps you SHOULD get stronger, wide cover defense.
because its due to the map, you know, the map is the game...
A shot from the BEST anti zipper base ive build (actual game).
9 Minutes ingame, red haven, a wide open map.
Same game, a base with a more vulnerable distribution.
So freakers do less damange than zippers now?
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
if a player builts 5 const units at the start 8 or so infrantry kbots attack from various sides and level everything in their ath before the com catches and d-guns them. they will have crippled the othe rplayer while being counterable. if a zipper attacks in that state or at any point where you have insufficent defence ITS GAME OVER.
mong, your base was tiny, you had little territory, and all your units were in your base. what does that prove? the issue is what you do when zippers attack and your army are 10 seconds away. then, its nearly impossible to make a comback. the idea of scouts is to SCOUT and harass. XTA's scouts are totally messed up; they cost more and have 5x the buildtime of the actually military units!? and are almost unstoppable early game?
mong, your base was tiny, you had little territory, and all your units were in your base. what does that prove? the issue is what you do when zippers attack and your army are 10 seconds away. then, its nearly impossible to make a comback. the idea of scouts is to SCOUT and harass. XTA's scouts are totally messed up; they cost more and have 5x the buildtime of the actually military units!? and are almost unstoppable early game?