NTai XE10.1b
Moderators: hoijui, Moderators
Ok, some odd bits of discussion here and there as to NTai and 0.73.
Suffice to say I havent left it for dead quite yet.
I am not going to be recompiling XE9RC22 for 0.73, nor will I recompile XE9.23 svn build.
Instead I have a new build XE9.29, (I use that version number because when I've figured out the fixes required it'll be released as XE9.3).
XE9.3 will have the following:
A new algorithm based on a simple heuristic now prevents NTai sending conbots to build mexes behind enemy bases, although there is still the odd map were they're sent to impossible locations and the path finder sends them through enemy bases such as the island mex spots on supreme battlefield, however I have another addition to help with that, and that should be eliminated entirely if I manage to make that terrain analysis thing I talked about).
Return of the threat matrix! A brand new class complete with a great mass of optimizations to make the threat matrix system much faster. The grouping mechanism of XE9.23/RC22 wasnt working well at all , and it was generating very noticeable lag spikes. Rest assured my latest tests of XE9.29 run very fast with no lag spikes or noticeable slowdown whatsoever.
Removal of SSE instructions from the build project and binary dll (for rattle and co)
Removal of B_FACTORY_CHEAP. Its an outdated universal build keyword thats obsolete and is simply deadweight since nobody uses it anymore.
Efficiency ratings for builders and factories have changed. Rather than simply randomly pick a buidler or factory it's now done via scoring based on threat values give or take 30%. The way their threat value has been calcualted has been changed too allowing them to be scaled up as threat values rise and give a better picture of the tech tree. A builders threat value is now the sum of the threat values of everything it builds. Thus a kbot factory is now more valuable to the AI than a hovercraft factory because it leads deeper down the tech tree. For the most part this should greatly improve non XTA gameplay.
There are still one or two issue to iron out with this however, lvl 1 bots are seen as more valuable because the method iterates down through the lvl 2 factory and its builder giving the conbot a bigger threat value than the lvl 2 both.....
Removal of one or two idle attack unit routines that lead to attack units moving randomly to positions right next to them.....
I'll throw in a new settings.exe with the team coloured nanospray checkbox included as it isnt present in the current settings.exe
I also have another few things to add:
AFMetal AI v4
I've noticed that there are some basic flaws in both v3 and the original metalmaker AI in that they dont always take into consideration the amount stored, simply the percentage full..... Also AFMetalAI marks allied metalmakers as needing to be added which is wrong so that needs changing too..... I'll also have the topion to switch AFMetalAI to make reserving energy its priority or generating metal...
ETA AI v4
A lot of issueswith attack units enmasse and this groupAI have been cited, involving the displaying of say 50 ETA times at once on the map next to each unit. Buildtimes will be displayed next to a unit without it needing to be selected, and all other ETA times will be attatched to the mouse cursor, and will also be attatched to the unit but only if there is 1 unit selected.
Compiling NTai from source will also require the boost library headers that come with the vclibs package for spring.
ps: do not download the XE9.3 Dev build dll on Unknown Files, it is buggy and will not work, it gives an error message about an exception in InitAI() and does nothing.
Suffice to say I havent left it for dead quite yet.
I am not going to be recompiling XE9RC22 for 0.73, nor will I recompile XE9.23 svn build.
Instead I have a new build XE9.29, (I use that version number because when I've figured out the fixes required it'll be released as XE9.3).
XE9.3 will have the following:
A new algorithm based on a simple heuristic now prevents NTai sending conbots to build mexes behind enemy bases, although there is still the odd map were they're sent to impossible locations and the path finder sends them through enemy bases such as the island mex spots on supreme battlefield, however I have another addition to help with that, and that should be eliminated entirely if I manage to make that terrain analysis thing I talked about).
Return of the threat matrix! A brand new class complete with a great mass of optimizations to make the threat matrix system much faster. The grouping mechanism of XE9.23/RC22 wasnt working well at all , and it was generating very noticeable lag spikes. Rest assured my latest tests of XE9.29 run very fast with no lag spikes or noticeable slowdown whatsoever.
Removal of SSE instructions from the build project and binary dll (for rattle and co)
Removal of B_FACTORY_CHEAP. Its an outdated universal build keyword thats obsolete and is simply deadweight since nobody uses it anymore.
Efficiency ratings for builders and factories have changed. Rather than simply randomly pick a buidler or factory it's now done via scoring based on threat values give or take 30%. The way their threat value has been calcualted has been changed too allowing them to be scaled up as threat values rise and give a better picture of the tech tree. A builders threat value is now the sum of the threat values of everything it builds. Thus a kbot factory is now more valuable to the AI than a hovercraft factory because it leads deeper down the tech tree. For the most part this should greatly improve non XTA gameplay.
There are still one or two issue to iron out with this however, lvl 1 bots are seen as more valuable because the method iterates down through the lvl 2 factory and its builder giving the conbot a bigger threat value than the lvl 2 both.....
Removal of one or two idle attack unit routines that lead to attack units moving randomly to positions right next to them.....
I'll throw in a new settings.exe with the team coloured nanospray checkbox included as it isnt present in the current settings.exe
I also have another few things to add:
AFMetal AI v4
I've noticed that there are some basic flaws in both v3 and the original metalmaker AI in that they dont always take into consideration the amount stored, simply the percentage full..... Also AFMetalAI marks allied metalmakers as needing to be added which is wrong so that needs changing too..... I'll also have the topion to switch AFMetalAI to make reserving energy its priority or generating metal...
ETA AI v4
A lot of issueswith attack units enmasse and this groupAI have been cited, involving the displaying of say 50 ETA times at once on the map next to each unit. Buildtimes will be displayed next to a unit without it needing to be selected, and all other ETA times will be attatched to the mouse cursor, and will also be attatched to the unit but only if there is 1 unit selected.
Compiling NTai from source will also require the boost library headers that come with the vclibs package for spring.
ps: do not download the XE9.3 Dev build dll on Unknown Files, it is buggy and will not work, it gives an error message about an exception in InitAI() and does nothing.
Sorry for the lack of progress reports lately, but I've been working quite a bit and gotten a long way further.
I've made quite a few fixes and changes, and right now NTai is the only AI capable of beating CSAI w00t.
I have some exceptions in handling a new dgunning addition that need fixing and a little tweak to a new construction system addition and then I'm all ready togo for a beta release just so I can get more feedback.
However a proper full release with installer might no arrive till the next spring version since I need slopemaps and other things, and the next version of spring has a few goodies that I'm sure are very useful thanks to yeha and trepan.
XE9.23->XE9.3 partial changelog
commanders will now avoid dgunning only things that can dgun or aircraft, it will dgun decoy commanders from now on.
commanders will attempt to reclaim enemy commanders when encountered if they can dgun while at the same time walking back to their base, making 2 enemy NTai commanders not want to be near eachother
commanders will reclaim enemy untis if they cna eb reclaimed in less than 4 seconds and there isnt the energy to dgun them, if it takes longer than 4 seconds and there isnt the energy to dgun it'll run away
A construction planning system has been integrated along with a lot of behaviours to help aid construction efficiency
Attack routines heavily optimized and cropped
A new Threat matrix system with new grouping mechanism
a maphack to improve NTais attack routines
A new angle and threat algorithm to prevent conbots walking over enemy bases to get to mexes
Improved threat value handling for construction units and factories by recursively adding what they can build to their value to make their values representative of what their build options are
Divide by zero errors fixed
Fixed Command caching bug allowing invalid commands through (thx to submarine for that)
Fixed NTai routines continuing to run when the game's paused
Reduced overall logfile sizes
Increased the run away hp routines effectiveness
removed old attack routines for grouping that lead to huge lag spikes
Added a minenergy section to specify minimum energy values for building buildings
enabled the maxenergy section again
rudimentary support for EE style construction hubs
Improved enemy sightings handling by making only 1 of each ally team do the processing on a shared threat matrix rather than every NTai doing it at once
set allied NTais to share construction plans
gave metal makers a higher priority in b_rule
universal build keywords can now be in lower or uppercase
changed default spacing values for closestbuildsite
Improved DT handler to help prevent issues with DT rings being reclaimed and rebuilt
addd an exclusion zone feature for mod.tdf and buildtree makers to prevent buildings of the same type beign built too close too eachother
Construction repair ranges and exclusion zones are now autocalcualted for mods that dont define them for better unviersal mod support
I've made quite a few fixes and changes, and right now NTai is the only AI capable of beating CSAI w00t.
I have some exceptions in handling a new dgunning addition that need fixing and a little tweak to a new construction system addition and then I'm all ready togo for a beta release just so I can get more feedback.
However a proper full release with installer might no arrive till the next spring version since I need slopemaps and other things, and the next version of spring has a few goodies that I'm sure are very useful thanks to yeha and trepan.
XE9.23->XE9.3 partial changelog
commanders will now avoid dgunning only things that can dgun or aircraft, it will dgun decoy commanders from now on.
commanders will attempt to reclaim enemy commanders when encountered if they can dgun while at the same time walking back to their base, making 2 enemy NTai commanders not want to be near eachother
commanders will reclaim enemy untis if they cna eb reclaimed in less than 4 seconds and there isnt the energy to dgun them, if it takes longer than 4 seconds and there isnt the energy to dgun it'll run away
A construction planning system has been integrated along with a lot of behaviours to help aid construction efficiency
Attack routines heavily optimized and cropped
A new Threat matrix system with new grouping mechanism
a maphack to improve NTais attack routines
A new angle and threat algorithm to prevent conbots walking over enemy bases to get to mexes
Improved threat value handling for construction units and factories by recursively adding what they can build to their value to make their values representative of what their build options are
Divide by zero errors fixed
Fixed Command caching bug allowing invalid commands through (thx to submarine for that)
Fixed NTai routines continuing to run when the game's paused
Reduced overall logfile sizes
Increased the run away hp routines effectiveness
removed old attack routines for grouping that lead to huge lag spikes
Added a minenergy section to specify minimum energy values for building buildings
enabled the maxenergy section again
rudimentary support for EE style construction hubs
Improved enemy sightings handling by making only 1 of each ally team do the processing on a shared threat matrix rather than every NTai doing it at once
set allied NTais to share construction plans
gave metal makers a higher priority in b_rule
universal build keywords can now be in lower or uppercase
changed default spacing values for closestbuildsite
Improved DT handler to help prevent issues with DT rings being reclaimed and rebuilt
addd an exclusion zone feature for mod.tdf and buildtree makers to prevent buildings of the same type beign built too close too eachother
Construction repair ranges and exclusion zones are now autocalcualted for mods that dont define them for better unviersal mod support
and as always check http://www.darkstars.co.uk for updates.
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hughperkins
- AI Developer
- Posts: 836
- Joined: 17 Oct 2006, 04:14
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centurion-1
- Posts: 169
- Joined: 31 Jan 2006, 20:53
perhaps, I've had uni coursework to focus on lately so I've not had as much tiem as I'd like.
I've also been enthralled by morrowind, playing nothing but XTA and being beaten by Pros or trying not to thrash noobs or playign AA and seeing twits and twats argue and ignore you and be bad allies is just demotivating.
I think this time I'll release each group AI separately. I'm also considering a basic downloader app depending on what time I have.
And I'm also keen on the idea of waiting for 0.73b2
I've also been enthralled by morrowind, playing nothing but XTA and being beaten by Pros or trying not to thrash noobs or playign AA and seeing twits and twats argue and ignore you and be bad allies is just demotivating.
I think this time I'll release each group AI separately. I'm also considering a basic downloader app depending on what time I have.
And I'm also keen on the idea of waiting for 0.73b2
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
0.73, and the antizipper movement happened.
For one NTai cant see seismic pings in 0.73b1.
NTai relies heavily on scouting and after 0.73 NTais attack routines just never worked because it wasnt ever aware of any enemy units, because to scout NTai used zippers in XTA and they got blown up quicker and they took longer to build. And NTai needed a lot of scouts to work effectively. So the maphack saved me a lot of time and annoyance. If it werent for the maphack I would never have been able to test my attack systems.
For one NTai cant see seismic pings in 0.73b1.
NTai relies heavily on scouting and after 0.73 NTais attack routines just never worked because it wasnt ever aware of any enemy units, because to scout NTai used zippers in XTA and they got blown up quicker and they took longer to build. And NTai needed a lot of scouts to work effectively. So the maphack saved me a lot of time and annoyance. If it werent for the maphack I would never have been able to test my attack systems.
Info on NTai Toolkit:
http://www.darkstars.co.uk/index.php?op ... ully+saved.
http://www.darkstars.co.uk/index.php?op ... ully+saved.
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Lindir The Green
- Posts: 815
- Joined: 04 May 2005, 15:09
http://cs.selu.edu/~ssmith/BB/viewtopic.php?t=774
In the above link is an NTai XE9.3 beta, and NTai Toolkit.
Please use this to make buildtrees! Notify me of any issues that arise.
note:: atm NTai is the only AI that has the capacity to support every mod available (exept the com shooter varieties), and since its the only AI with support for hubs, this is the only AI compatible with EE 1.7 and NOTA. No amount of config editing willg et AAI or CSAI to work with these mods.
In the above link is an NTai XE9.3 beta, and NTai Toolkit.
Please use this to make buildtrees! Notify me of any issues that arise.
note:: atm NTai is the only AI that has the capacity to support every mod available (exept the com shooter varieties), and since its the only AI with support for hubs, this is the only AI compatible with EE 1.7 and NOTA. No amount of config editing willg et AAI or CSAI to work with these mods.
I have loaded Spring with NTai and the mods I want to make a buildtree for. Two files come up in the NTai folder called <tdf path name>.tdf and config<tdf path name>.tdf, the latter with the default values. However, opening either one up does not give me any units, making it pretty hard to actually use the tool. How do I add units?
Also are the Learning values, Metatags and AAI config tabs supposed to be empty?
Also are the Learning values, Metatags and AAI config tabs supposed to be empty?
Yah those 3 tabs arent essential atm and you can make a pretty good config without them.
When youopen a config in NTai Toolkit you select the tdf in the NTai folder, the tdf in the configs folder is just part of it, that holds the actual data. The reason for these two configs is that NTai Toolkit needs access to an NTai learnign file in order to retrieve the unit names.
default.tdf is just there for NTai to use to fill out configs if they're not found, but from the looks of it it's possible its not doing that.
If you really need to get it working and it doesnt then do the following:
Copy the XTA 7 config I included and rename it to <modarchivename>.tdf or <mods NTai tag in mod_info.tdf>.tdf
Erase the contents of the copied file in the config folder
Modify the main TDF so that the 2 tags pointing to the learning data is pointing at correct learning data, and the renamed tdf.
In the mean time I'm going to look around to checking NTai again and making sure it generates the necessary configs.
When youopen a config in NTai Toolkit you select the tdf in the NTai folder, the tdf in the configs folder is just part of it, that holds the actual data. The reason for these two configs is that NTai Toolkit needs access to an NTai learnign file in order to retrieve the unit names.
default.tdf is just there for NTai to use to fill out configs if they're not found, but from the looks of it it's possible its not doing that.
If you really need to get it working and it doesnt then do the following:
Copy the XTA 7 config I included and rename it to <modarchivename>.tdf or <mods NTai tag in mod_info.tdf>.tdf
Erase the contents of the copied file in the config folder
Modify the main TDF so that the 2 tags pointing to the learning data is pointing at correct learning data, and the renamed tdf.
In the mean time I'm going to look around to checking NTai again and making sure it generates the necessary configs.
TRIP REPORT
I attempted to make a config file using the tool for BA 4.33. I loaded up NTAi with spring and the mod. It generated the right files.
Bug 1) In AA.tdf, in the NTai folder, there is no .tdf on the end of the file paths.
Bug 2) In the editor, adding more than 1 task list seems to make it crap out a bit. They don't display in the task lists for units section and saving it and loading the cfg file again makes an error in the TDF file loader.
When I come to load my config file and test NTai, nothing happens. Here is my config and here is my log file. In the config file I tried using both task lists com1 and armcom.
Important error maybe:
[-] < Frame: 0 >error, ntai.tdf doesnt exist, therefore the NTai data required to run NTai probably doesnt exist. Please check AI/NTai/NTai/ has NTai.tdf and other AI data and folders....
I attempted to make a config file using the tool for BA 4.33. I loaded up NTAi with spring and the mod. It generated the right files.
Bug 1) In AA.tdf, in the NTai folder, there is no .tdf on the end of the file paths.
Bug 2) In the editor, adding more than 1 task list seems to make it crap out a bit. They don't display in the task lists for units section and saving it and loading the cfg file again makes an error in the TDF file loader.
When I come to load my config file and test NTai, nothing happens. Here is my config and here is my log file. In the config file I tried using both task lists com1 and armcom.
Important error maybe:
[-] < Frame: 0 >error, ntai.tdf doesnt exist, therefore the NTai data required to run NTai probably doesnt exist. Please check AI/NTai/NTai/ has NTai.tdf and other AI data and folders....