Rangeeffectiveness

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 02 Oct 2006, 01:41

It's somewhat self-explanatory. Like edgeeffectiveness dictates how much damage a weapon's explosion does at its edge, rangeeffectiveness would determin how much damage is done at the weapon's max range, with damage sloping from default damage to max range damage accordingly.

Another tag could also be implimented, "dropoff", which controls at what segment of the weapon's range will the dropoff begin... ie, a dropoff of .5 would mean the weapon's default damage stays up to half its range, and only then begins dropping off..

It would be very helpful.

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 02 Oct 2006, 02:07

Seconded. Could make use of that for a sonic weapon.

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 02 Oct 2006, 02:37

Interesting idea. The real question is whether the engine stores the range for all weapon types- my guess would be no. This should be pretty easily fixed, though.

Possible uses:

Sonic weapons.
Shotguns.
Semi-realistic tank combat.
Whacky stuff, like cannon-balls.

FLOZi · Post by **FLOZi** » 02 Oct 2006, 02:53

Argh wrote:Interesting idea. The real question is whether the engine stores the range for all weapon types- my guess would be no. This should be pretty easily fixed, though.

Possible uses:

Sonic weapons.
Shotguns.
Semi-realistic tank combat.
Whacky stuff, like cannon-balls.

Obviously the one we are after

Really I'd like to see a more generalised system whereby attributes can be based on a function of other attributes - i.e. damage is a function of velocity, velocity is a function of age, etc. Though obviously that would be a much more complex undertaking. (and far more computationally expensive i imagine)

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 02 Oct 2006, 02:59

I would not want this until you can graphically reflect it (like shots that fade out and have smaller explosions with distance). There are already enough hidden properties in Spring - no need for more players who whoop their enemies at Spring: Trivial Pursuit.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 02 Oct 2006, 03:04

mod definable. Please don't attack a feature because you think it wouldn't work in a particular implementation.

However, you can reflect it with velocity, using the start velocity/weaponaccel tags. other than that, you could probably sort something out with argh's new stuff too.

(of course I'd love to see this implemented, it would make tank combat much easier to simulate)

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 02 Oct 2006, 04:01

Interesting, Flamers getting hotter as they are in the air..Rockets building up speed and slamming into something..

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 02 Oct 2006, 04:47

Nemo wrote:mod definable. Please don't attack a feature because you think it wouldn't work in a particular implementation.

However, you can reflect it with velocity, using the start velocity/weaponaccel tags. other than that, you could probably sort something out with argh's new stuff too.

(of course I'd love to see this implemented, it would make tank combat much easier to simulate)

My point is that this feature wouldn't work unless implemented with a number of other graphical features that, afaik, do not exist yet.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 02 Oct 2006, 05:21

I disagree. It makes sense that a shotgun, for example, would do less damage at range, even without a visual explanation. Same goes for tank shells.

Let the modders worry about intuitiveness/visual explanation, this has a significant gameplay benefit for at least one mod, and opens up a fairly wide range of possibilities for others.

Soulless1 · Post by **Soulless1** » 02 Oct 2006, 10:30

yeah, get it in there

don't forget to let the system work both ways, so you could have weapons that *increase* in damage over range

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 02 Oct 2006, 11:14

There's a really easy soloution about figuring out how much damage a unit does: RPG style damage text!
White text for normal random damage, yellow/red for critical hits (higher than average), and some other colour for all those minor/half-missed shots. They would appear above the unit, move upwards and fade to 100% translucency (just an idea).
It's easier than making just about everything graphically visible through effects...

This would make sense in a mod which is about quality instead of quantity. Of course it's annoying when your 200 AKs spam little funky numbers but for the 1944 tanks for instance it'd be cool I guess. Or any other mod which depends on smaller amounts units. I simply assumed you aren't going to be able to spam tanks.

Perhaps a new tag such as ShowDamageText=1; or what ever on either unit or weapon. I'd say weapon because there are tanks with additional gunmounts and maybe you don't want to see the text for that fast firing machine gun or something. Then again, maybe CanShowDamageText on the unit so you can deactivate it if you share weapons across units.

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 02 Oct 2006, 14:02

rattle wrote:There's a really easy soloution about figuring out how much damage a unit does: RPG style damage text!
White text for normal random damage, yellow/red for critical hits (higher than average), and some other colour for all those minor/half-missed shots. They would appear above the unit, move upwards and fade to 100% translucency (just an idea).
It's easier than making just about everything graphically visible through effects...

This would make sense in a mod which is about quality instead of quantity. Of course it's annoying when your 200 AKs spam little funky numbers but for the 1944 tanks for instance it'd be cool I guess. Or any other mod which depends on smaller amounts units. I simply assumed you aren't going to be able to spam tanks.

Perhaps a new tag such as ShowDamageText=1; or what ever on either unit or weapon. I'd say weapon because there are tanks with additional gunmounts and maybe you don't want to see the text for that fast firing machine gun or something. Then again, maybe CanShowDamageText on the unit so you can deactivate it if you share weapons across units.

This actually worked very well in Sauerbraten.

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 02 Oct 2006, 14:37

Personally, I always felt that ruined immersion somewhat; however, in some instances I could see it being quite a functional system.

Particularly if you are able to customise what is said, so that you can replace numbers with actual text. Similar to the "rear armour hit!" from COH.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 02 Oct 2006, 14:37

I've seen it implemented in Spellforce, Trash and Maelstrom. Would be useful in addition to allowing random damage variation. After all, not every hit is equally damaging to the target, some shots hit vital organs/systems while others get stuck in filling material.

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 04 Oct 2006, 04:34

Random damage could easily be done via script... say, there's a 25% chance of a hit causing a bit more damage than normal (done by registering the hit, seeing how much damage it does, and then calling the appropriate weapon to fire via script to do whatever damage..), a 25% chance of a hit causing less damage (same thing, except weapon would have negative damage, so it heals instead of damages?! is that possible?!), and 50% of it doing normal damage. Of course this would involve heavy scripting and a bunch of weapons (since it'd need to call a specific weapon doing specific damage depending on how much the hit damage is.. unless you just made one generic "1 damage" weapon and called it say 150 times to do 150 damage... lol)

Anyway, rangeeffectiveness would be very good. Please. Shouldn't be too hard to do?

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 04 Oct 2006, 05:01

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but would bell-curve damage probability be possible?
Not that I'm interested, this is purely out of curiosity.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 04 Oct 2006, 12:01

Spiked: Yes but what if you want a completely random (or bell-curved) damage distribution instead of "does normal or double damage"?

Spring RTS Engine

Rangeeffectiveness

Rangeeffectiveness