WOOT! I did it!!!

[Forboding Angel]

Bloodthirsty KAI settings. So far it's only set up for URC in the mod EE. IT is just plain nasty now.

No more retard unit building (Which means it's prolly a good idea to back off the handicap). It now builds AIR!!! And it no longer has any trouble with walls (unless the map you're playing is one chokepoint and you wall that point up and just porc, however, even in that unlikely circumstance, you'll probably lose).

Anyway, here is the settings file. In the battle room just go to the units selection menu, click open and load the .sel file. Happy hunting!

http://www.unknown-files.net/index.php? ... &dlid=1754

[LathanStanley]

I may have to inspect the code on that.... and make a GD AI...

and you can call that one KAI:URC

I'll call the GD one if I do it.. KAI:GD




uhhh.... ummm...

thats not much code....



I thought you had the KAI code...

[Forboding Angel]

no, it's a unit restrictions list

the trick to making KAI not make dumb choices is by thinking like it. Forexample it builds on what it thinks is the most effective, given certain stats, which lends itself to retardation. By eliminating the choices that it has no use for, it makes good choices now and opens up more avenues for it (like the fact that it enjoy's building airplants and sam mechs now.

[LathanStanley]

well.... is there a link to the code for it anywhere???

I could take a whack at it...

shhhhhh though.. yes I can code... but I keep my mouth shut...

[Forboding Angel]

it's closed source a la krogothe, so that option is out.

[LathanStanley]

thats what I thought.... I was just hoping...

I'm not in the mood to start from square 1.... but I bet I can do some nifty stuff from his point....

[1v0ry_k1ng]

make a GD one? and why wot KAI use NI commanders?

[Tim Blokdijk]

well.... is there a link to the code for it anywhere???

I could take a whack at it...

shhhhhh though.. yes I can code... but I keep my mouth shut...

I presume you know that AAI is open source and that we needs some more coders for it?

[j5mello]

...and why wot KAI use NI commanders?

thast kinda like asking why someone won't drive on a half completed bridge

[Forboding Angel]

aai is hardly capable of kicking the serious ass that KAI is. I know that submarine puts a lot of work into AAI as well as all the other AI's out there, but you will never get a good challenge out of a non cheating AI.

[Neddie]

I disagree. It simply takes far too much information to work around the lack of cheat-data.

And you know what? If I don't cheat, my AI shouldn't either.

[Tim Blokdijk]

Well, it's open source you can make AAI cheat if you like.
Would like it if it is optional still.

[rattle]

Non cheating AIs ftw. Even KAI is not much of a challenge if you keep pressing on it right from the start but it's most challenging one atm, agreed.

[Forboding Angel]

I disagree. It simply takes far too much information to work around the lack of cheat-data.

And you know what? If I don't cheat, my AI shouldn't either.

the hilarious thing is the fact that you're in a moral dilemma over your ai, lol. That's good tv

[Forboding Angel]

Non cheating AIs ftw. Even KAI is not much of a challenge if you keep pressing on it right from the start but it's most challenging one atm, agreed.

orly? umm do yourself a favor before you say that.. put kai on 100% handicap and try to win. Good luck!

oh wait, handicap must be a cheat too. Heh, have fun, because no AI without a handicap is gonna put up any kinda of a fight vs a decent player.

BTW the only cheat that kai uses is a maphack. You can achieve the same thing by scouting, and long range radar towers.

[rattle]

Honestly, AIs shouldn't need cheats (even if it's a maphack) to win. What are radar towers good for then. The out of LOS targeting is fine with me as long as it takes radar coverage into account, just not that it "sees" the entire map. Anyway lets not argue about this, you'll be using this in the end I'll be using that. EOS. By the way KAI probably needs a recompile now for 0.73. Neither 0.11 nor 0.20 ran with the svn version last time I checked.

[Neddie]

I'm not in a moral dilemma at all, and I don't watch television these days. It is my rational opinion that the maphack is a pathetic replacement for a scouting routine, or intelligent use of radar.

Players make mistakes due to scouting. They still can play better than an AI with a maphack, often. That is a sign that the AI is not sufficently skilled.

[Warlord Zsinj]

You cheat because you have a hundred million years of evolution going for you, compared to the AI which has a couple of days' worth of code. I think it is perfectly reasonable to even things out a bit. The better AI's will cheat more subtly, though.

[Arco]

You cheat because you have a hundred million years of evolution going for you, compared to the AI which has a couple of days' worth of code. I think it is perfectly reasonable to even things out a bit. The better AI's will cheat more subtly, though.

To be fair, it's not like there was ever an evolutionary pressure to play Spring well, whereas that's all a Spring AI is built to do.

Furthermore, I feel that AIs already have inherent advantages. It's pretty much impossible for a human to cycle through hundreds of units each frame and individually micromanage each path to retain optimal firing conditions for every unit. An AI can do this. An AI isn't limited to controlling what's selectable on the screen at the moment or what has been put into a limited pool of assigned group numbers. An AI can instantly tell any unit to do anything. Queue up new units in a dozen factories while micromanaging a base assault and sending newly-made units to an optimal rally point? No problem. Humans can't do this. Even the best human players have limits to how many orders they can give in a split second.

Humans and computers have different strengths and weaknesses, but they have them. As such, it seems unfair to break core gameplay rules like the ability to see your enemy in favor of one. It's true right now that KAI is tough because it can attack very intelligently--it finds your weakest point and punches through. But there's no reason why this could not still be done with scouting instead of a cheat. Sure, sometimes it would fail because suddenly radar jammers present a problem, but it's just a bit crazy that units will stream in from anywhere you haven't properly defended against regardless of whether or not the AI should know that you're weak there.

The real reason it resorts to cheating is that currently the AI interface is such that it effectively makes humans cheat instead--humans can do things like infer what units are sitting out of visual range, and how many, by looking at the projectiles they fire. Humans can easily see any available state information for every visible unit. The AIs are currently crippled because this information is not made available to them through what is currently a very incomplete AI interface. How many threads do you see where someone asks, "can I do this with an AI?" and the answer is, "no, because you can't get that info through the AI interface" or "no, you can't get/set that via scripts" or some other thing. These limitations are what need to disappear, and then AIs can be on a more level playing field against humans.

[1v0ry_k1ng]

I think KAI has got its cheat thing perfect. all it does is know the rough location of units. it dosnt see cloaked or get a resource buff. it plays well, but it dosnt learn which means you can find tactics that work and use them. KAI is the only AI I see as a good match for any player at EE (with the appropriate handicap for some.) and the best around for a fun game.