It does, just need to build a larger corpses zone :D The only prb is with Dragonteeth and defenses. Dragonteeth only block mvt with high trajec, not the shootsbut peewees shooting over walls makes the whole "line of chared corpses acting as a defensive wall" effect not work any more...
Do we keep high and low trajectories ?
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Bleh, this is rather silly. Of course it should stay, it is rather necessary on most accounts for a 3D engine and 3D maps.
However, I argue that it should be removed as a user-activated button.
The high angle trajectory should be completely automatic. It should either be detected by the unit before the unit fires, by calculating its projectile path, and altering it if there is a terrain obstruction, or somewhat more simply, fire, then based on the results of that shot, increase or decrease its angle of aiming according to how succesful/unsuccesful the shot is.
Button space in the interface is at a premium, and there are millions of more important things that it could be used for instead of a function which should be entirely automatic anyway.
However, I argue that it should be removed as a user-activated button.
The high angle trajectory should be completely automatic. It should either be detected by the unit before the unit fires, by calculating its projectile path, and altering it if there is a terrain obstruction, or somewhat more simply, fire, then based on the results of that shot, increase or decrease its angle of aiming according to how succesful/unsuccesful the shot is.
Button space in the interface is at a premium, and there are millions of more important things that it could be used for instead of a function which should be entirely automatic anyway.
I agree with you that sometimes I might want firing angles to be autoset rather than user selected int he menu and that there can be far too much in the menu. But I do think that the automatic part should be an option to be turned on or off. Perhaps a keycombo should replace the menu button?
Afterral if you set your bertha to high trajectory then there's no way fo tellign where the BB shot came from, unlike if you set it to low traj where it would come in at an angle and you'd knwo the direction immediatly. Though you have greater accuracy at low traj
Afterral if you set your bertha to high trajectory then there's no way fo tellign where the BB shot came from, unlike if you set it to low traj where it would come in at an angle and you'd knwo the direction immediatly. Though you have greater accuracy at low traj
High arcing projectiles are a must have (Why can't mortars be fired over walls in the vanilla TA?). But Pee Wee and low end Tanks should not have this ability, and in no case should a tank be able to achieve more than a 40 degree arc. If I see arcing lasers in spring I'll shoot somebody! :)
Who ever mentioned plasma making smoke trails, I can see heated battles bogging down the fastest machines out there. For some reason dynamic smoke really bogs down the graphics rendering. Just fire up Postal 2 and go banzai with the can of gasoline (like 20 gallons worth) and watch your framerate drop from 120 FPS to 2 FPS the second you drop that match. You don't even have to see the effect for the framerate to die.
Ever soak a tennis ball in gasoline, light it up, and give it a throw? (please don't try at home) That is the effect the plasma ball should have, including the sound produced as it whizzes through the air.
(edit) The option to change arcing should always be user made. I can see tons of options where the player and AI would dissagree on what arc to use and not having that button can mean the difference between win or lose. I often hide my cannons behind wall with gaps in place to fire through. I would find it a very big annoyance if my cannons needlessly sacrificed their accuracy in favor of firing over my wall when there is a perfectly servicable hole in it to fire through.
Who ever mentioned plasma making smoke trails, I can see heated battles bogging down the fastest machines out there. For some reason dynamic smoke really bogs down the graphics rendering. Just fire up Postal 2 and go banzai with the can of gasoline (like 20 gallons worth) and watch your framerate drop from 120 FPS to 2 FPS the second you drop that match. You don't even have to see the effect for the framerate to die.
Ever soak a tennis ball in gasoline, light it up, and give it a throw? (please don't try at home) That is the effect the plasma ball should have, including the sound produced as it whizzes through the air.
(edit) The option to change arcing should always be user made. I can see tons of options where the player and AI would dissagree on what arc to use and not having that button can mean the difference between win or lose. I often hide my cannons behind wall with gaps in place to fire through. I would find it a very big annoyance if my cannons needlessly sacrificed their accuracy in favor of firing over my wall when there is a perfectly servicable hole in it to fire through.
Wrong again Zsinj! Making automatic just wastes resources, tags in the fbi allow the best of both worlds and most importantly; CONTROL for the modder.Warlord Zsinj wrote:Bleh, this is rather silly. Of course it should stay, it is rather necessary on most accounts for a 3D engine and 3D maps.
However, I argue that it should be removed as a user-activated button.
The high angle trajectory should be completely automatic. It should either be detected by the unit before the unit fires, by calculating its projectile path, and altering it if there is a terrain obstruction, or somewhat more simply, fire, then based on the results of that shot, increase or decrease its angle of aiming according to how succesful/unsuccesful the shot is.
Button space in the interface is at a premium, and there are millions of more important things that it could be used for instead of a function which should be entirely automatic anyway.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
As I said in the other thread, Flozi, I never said that the option should be removed. Its bloody useful, and can be used many times over by modders.
I do think that it should not be a button though. That's all I'm suggesting.
It should be scriptable definitely. Hell, if you wanted it to be in the interface, you could hook it to the Dgun button through a script if you really wanted. But I think that for gameplay fluidity, it is unnecessary to make it user activated for all ballistic units, unless expressly desired by the unit creator.
I do think that it should not be a button though. That's all I'm suggesting.
It should be scriptable definitely. Hell, if you wanted it to be in the interface, you could hook it to the Dgun button through a script if you really wanted. But I think that for gameplay fluidity, it is unnecessary to make it user activated for all ballistic units, unless expressly desired by the unit creator.
By default, units should not have high trajectories, as to keep the game compatible with "old-skool" TA units.
Although, with all of these suggestions, we might as well just drop the current unit format for something with more simplicity and less procedure.
Anyway, it should be a tagged thing. Yeah. No doubt. For sure.
Although, with all of these suggestions, we might as well just drop the current unit format for something with more simplicity and less procedure.
Anyway, it should be a tagged thing. Yeah. No doubt. For sure.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
btw Neuralise, spring already ahs trajectories set to low byd efault.
As for dropping the unit format, just because GAFS arent supported doesnt mean the whole thign should be dropped, it would eb unnecessary work for the SY's and time consuming for the entire community.
Why change what already works?
imo any changes that do happen will come about because of Buggi and ntot he SY's, buggi's already spearheaded te new format drive with HAPI 3
As for dropping the unit format, just because GAFS arent supported doesnt mean the whole thign should be dropped, it would eb unnecessary work for the SY's and time consuming for the entire community.
Why change what already works?
imo any changes that do happen will come about because of Buggi and ntot he SY's, buggi's already spearheaded te new format drive with HAPI 3
If one day they make a new unit format, I hope they still keep support for the old format. That's how most software go, when a new version is done the new version can still read the data of the old version, in top of his own data format. Word2000 can still read text file, Windows media player 10 can still read .wav, GIMP 2.2.7 can still work on .bmp, you got the idea.
It would be nice if .gaf were supported in new spring version, but unpacking a hundreds gaf into bmp can be done with a single command, so it's not that time consumming to convert texture for a mod. It's just very annoying when you add individual units or don't have the correct tool or aren't familiar with unit-making.
It would be nice if .gaf were supported in new spring version, but unpacking a hundreds gaf into bmp can be done with a single command, so it's not that time consumming to convert texture for a mod. It's just very annoying when you add individual units or don't have the correct tool or aren't familiar with unit-making.
Well for the hell of it i changed the mars map and changed the gravity down to 1! Most battles turn into rapidly expanding debrie filds. And it useualy takes a 10 minuts for the debrie to flote DOWN from where they where blown to. When a K-bot is hit by a shell and it flew back half way across the map untill it hit a mountan and stoped flying! Air fights become dizzingly cool, unblowed by gravity. Suddenly the air planes can turn on a dime and turn very well. Also when they lose controll after takeing a lot of damage they dont fall down. Insted they go off in the direction that they had been flying.
Missles go a realy far distence. Projectile weapons fly insane distances if they miss, disapearing into the clouds. Suddenly BB's and Indimidators are next to useless, unless your WAY above the enemy base. Suddenly the battelfild becomes realy zany! TRY IT
TUTORIAL: SMD files opend by notepad, then change gravity as high or as low as you want. DONT and i say DONT set it to zero or else the first time you build a projectile weapon it will crash. Now im going to set the gravity to high
Missles go a realy far distence. Projectile weapons fly insane distances if they miss, disapearing into the clouds. Suddenly BB's and Indimidators are next to useless, unless your WAY above the enemy base. Suddenly the battelfild becomes realy zany! TRY IT
TUTORIAL: SMD files opend by notepad, then change gravity as high or as low as you want. DONT and i say DONT set it to zero or else the first time you build a projectile weapon it will crash. Now im going to set the gravity to high
Definatly leave it in. And yes I agree with the FBI tag thing, but it must stay as an option for the player to select, and not done automatically by the AI. Having this adds a whole new strategy to LRPC's... do you stick with standard trajectory and get faster projectile delievry and better accuracy, or do you select high trajectory and sacrafice targeting and projectile delivery times to mask the location of your LRPC from your opponent. (Not really useful against an AI once it is implemented, but an effective tactic to make it more difficult for human opponents to locate the LRPC and counter-attack it.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Everyone is afraid of making design decisions (or; I should say "help the SY's with their decisions). Every time you can't make a decision about whether something should go in or out, you can't cop out and say "let the user decide", because by the end you will have a half-hearted product.
Too much decision for the end user is a bad thing. The user should just have to get on with the game, and not get bogged down with decisions about interface.
Also, if it is decision-based, then users who have the button activated have a clear advantage over people who don't, and this is unfair, considering those people may want to use that button for a more important use, etc. People should be fighting on an even playing field; the only variable should be player skill.
Too much decision for the end user is a bad thing. The user should just have to get on with the game, and not get bogged down with decisions about interface.
Also, if it is decision-based, then users who have the button activated have a clear advantage over people who don't, and this is unfair, considering those people may want to use that button for a more important use, etc. People should be fighting on an even playing field; the only variable should be player skill.
Warlord Zsinj, i don't think anyone spoke about an user activated/desactived button choice, but instead a modder choice, or else, an user choice to activate the high/low trajectory (which mean that they have the button activated).
And if it is the player choice to activate/desactivate the button in the interface, this is skill to chose to activate it or not. In all games, you have interface choices for the player (for exemple, the speed of scrolling or the speed of aim in fps). If someone chose to use low aim speed, it is his choice, and the one who choosed a higher aim speed and is able to use it, have more skill. In a wargame, skill is not only in strategy, but also in using the interface better than the other player (if you can handle 15 groups of units, and use them all at the same time, this is interface skill, and you will be able to do better organised attacks than the player which can only handle 5 shortcuts)
And if it is the player choice to activate/desactivate the button in the interface, this is skill to chose to activate it or not. In all games, you have interface choices for the player (for exemple, the speed of scrolling or the speed of aim in fps). If someone chose to use low aim speed, it is his choice, and the one who choosed a higher aim speed and is able to use it, have more skill. In a wargame, skill is not only in strategy, but also in using the interface better than the other player (if you can handle 15 groups of units, and use them all at the same time, this is interface skill, and you will be able to do better organised attacks than the player which can only handle 5 shortcuts)