Missiles from a sub below the water

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 20 Sep 2006, 04:18

Von gratz I dont want to shoot you down some more but really man I have to ask you to stop being mysterious and such..

The hit sphere doesnt move.... at all so you could have evil stealth flying submarines of dEWM..!

As you can see there the hitsphere most certainly doesnt move...

Also Von, its clear you have the missile model come out of a small tube and then move up to the surface accompanied by water graphical effects.. once this piece moves to the surface the script calls aiming ready and the weapon then can actually fire from that spot.. or some variation of that part..

VonGratz · Post by **VonGratz** » 20 Sep 2006, 04:33

I might want to put that in AA, actually... Leviathan has a strange role I don't really want to exist, but it's a cavedog unit and I generally don't delete those.

The intended role of Leviathan is exactly what is now, because the original Cavedog model already have containers and doors to fire missiles but it not was implemented.Why not? Maybe Kauzlaric TA history blog would have the answer to that question. :idea:
VonGratz

REVENGE · Post by **REVENGE** » 20 Sep 2006, 06:09

Good stuff. Regardless of what Caydr does to regular AA, this will absolutely be added into AA (E).

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 20 Sep 2006, 06:11

Um, the firepoint is monitored seperately of the unit's position above or below the water. Just FYI... both of these approaches could be improved.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 20 Sep 2006, 07:26

hrm.. how so..

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 20 Sep 2006, 07:36

Caydr wrote:I might want to put that in AA, actually... Leviathan has a strange role I don't really want to exist, but it's a cavedog unit and I generally don't delete those.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Subs are pretty difficult to kill if you lost control of the water. Currently they're restricted to hitting other water targets but to hit any land stuff you need ships. I'd rather see the Lev as a really heavy sub for killing the likes of torp launchers and the small L2 subs for killing subs (including the Lev) with high efficiency. To kill L2 subs you'd have to use torp bombers or ships, since sub killers wouldn't be effective against ships they'd be rather useless at taking down ships which would force the use of Levs or L1 subs. Those can be blasted by your own sub killers before the sub killer fleets duke it out.

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 20 Sep 2006, 08:13

But then the Lev is just a "super L1 sub", which sort of goes against the old non-replacement theory. I think a missile sub would be awesome, but perhaps it would have to be accompanied to a buff to sub-hunting capabilities of... maybe torpedo bombers? Anyway, if we're going to keep at this we should take it to the AA thread.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 20 Sep 2006, 11:10

Well, it'd be an expensive, slow and powerful unit while the standard sub is more mobile, obviously cheaper and can take less of a beating. It's like heavy and light tanks.

VonGratz · Post by **VonGratz** » 20 Sep 2006, 14:45

KDR_11k wrote: I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Subs are pretty difficult to kill if you lost control of the water.

Maybe this would be the reason for Cavedog not put the full capability unit ingame.Balance is very important.
Each time a group (+4) of these boats attack a base(Skirmish AI) well protected or not, its a carnage ( or a metalage

).The only possible counter-attack are torpedo bombers or destroyers ( in my mod also escorts and a level one slow limited sonar ARM anti-sub plane - the Tracker ) and, if they would not be disponible, the game ends.Im rebalancing the cost of such "leviathan".
VonGratz

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 20 Sep 2006, 18:26

@Fang: So where do weapons impact, the hitsphere or the unit itself? Sounds pretty hacky. Not that I'm not guilty of such things. Apparently the way I use hitspheres is so hacky it makes the internets explode.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 20 Sep 2006, 22:30

Caydr, TBH that submarine is used so infrequently in my mod, and it doesnt stay above the water for very long.. just long enough to fire off the missile and then go back down.. (the weapon it has is a stockpiled Nuke weapon, which is expensive) that I have not had it ever really be attacked whilst surfaced..

However I did notice when making submarines that if any part of the hitsphere is above water then the unit can be attacked by non water weapons.. since the hitsphere is below I assume only torpedos can attack it and that also given that they will go towards the hitsphere..

Alternatively you could not move the whole submarine up to fire the missile which visually would I suppose look less "hacky" but achieve the same effect.. the firepoint and aim point must be above water for it to fire properly, if the aimpoint is not it wont fire and if the aim point is and the firepoint not it will try to fire only to have the weapon detonate immediately which for a nuke sub can have amusing consequences...

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 20 Sep 2006, 23:00

That reminds me of a replay... plane colliding with a launching nuke. So the hitsphere isn't attached to the root object at all...

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 20 Sep 2006, 23:33

the submarine is not the "root" object, the baseplate is is...

overkill · Post by **overkill** » 21 Sep 2006, 00:26

sweet ive always wanted a missile sub but i play arm

Argh · Post by **Argh** » 21 Sep 2006, 01:45

Actually, the hitsphere is attached relative to the Origin 0,0,0. It rotates seperately of the Base. It is not attached to anything but the Model Origin. And it is apparantly synched (for maximum game accuracy) while it appears to me that the model that is drawn is either unsyched or just isn't accurate

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 21 Sep 2006, 03:28

argh, the submarine in that picture has been moved via a script because it is about to fire and part of its fire animation is to move the submarine to the surface, normally it is located at its hitbox.. technically its baseplate is still located at that place..

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 21 Sep 2006, 04:42

I could see Arm with a similar EMP missile sub. Then you'd have less worry of the "overpowered surface-attack sub" problem. Besides, Arm is already short a few units at the Amphicom, an extra Arm sub would even the score.

maestro · Post by **maestro** » 21 Sep 2006, 06:03

hi graatz.....
send me one.... I always asking for thing like this isn it

rattle · Post by **rattle** » 21 Sep 2006, 14:37

Fanger wrote:the submarine is not the "root" object, the baseplate is is...

I said root object, not submarine. This would be your base (or however you call it, I tend to name it body) object. I thought you moved base upwards

VonGratz · Post by **VonGratz** » 21 Sep 2006, 19:46

overkill wrote:sweet ive always wanted a missile sub but i play arm

Dont hurry about

...the Levi tests are to complete true missile subs(thereafter TMSbs) for ARM X (still not named, but not anglo-saxon names), CORE Horizon & TLL Whale (modif.)
Now Im testing ingame the Whale and both new models.
Graatz

Spring RTS Engine

Missiles from a sub below the water