Not all the ideas are good, but I wanted to throw out everything I could think of...rattle wrote:Not another AA *cough*-Big mean-looking robots that are only practical on a map like Speedmetal.
XTA
Moderator: Moderators
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
Well the thing is to achieve critical mass you'd have to make the mod noob friendly. Which would mean having loads of level 3 kbots, and hundreds of silly units with similar roles.
But I really wouldn't be interested in that.
Another option would perhaps be making it a little more forgiving. The zippers are very difficult to counter if you're a new player.
Now that we have friendly fire implimented I would suggest making the level 1 tank/kbot balance a little more OTA like.
But I really wouldn't be interested in that.
Another option would perhaps be making it a little more forgiving. The zippers are very difficult to counter if you're a new player.
Now that we have friendly fire implimented I would suggest making the level 1 tank/kbot balance a little more OTA like.
I agree. Rather than trying to roll in L3 units into XTA, why not make use of the glut of "extra races" that were designed to be similar in variety to the post-CC OTA factions? Like the Xect, TLL, etc. (I won't suggest the Mynn because they are quite visibly Xenoclone's first-attempt).AF wrote:Adding an existing race to XTA would do a great deal of good once the extra race is balanced to XTA standards.
Whatever happened to the XTA+TLL project?
I suggest that XTA needs a hook or 'unique selling point'. AA's hook is its many units, and its claim to be the most balanced mod out there. I think a 3rd race would be a great hook. Another minor hook that I've just been think about recently may be to try and make it into a mod where it is balanced to start with any factory depending on the terrain - i.e. ship, air, hover as well as kbot and vehicle. Make the different starting factory choices play almost like choosing a different race in some of the RTS with more extreme race vs race differentiation. At least until each side is able to build all the different factories.
Or positioning the mod as a mod which takes advantage of the most common complaints about AA. For instance I'm one of those players who prefers XTA's approach to anti air - being able to hit both air and ground. This has motivated me to try the odd game. I think one of the biggest reasons I haven't played it more is that I am uncomfortable with the balance of XTA due to my lack of experience, and for me its not worth learning a whole new mod just to avoid what for me is a minor annoyance with anti air.
Maybe it could be worth making XTA balance similar to AA where there is not advantage gained to making it different. For example the AA llt is an ultra cheap unit that can be spammed early as anti rush protection. If you try the same trick in XTA you will crush your economy. I don't think the XTA version of the llt adds to XTA's uniqueness, so make it the same as AA's version to help players adjust to XTA easier.
Or positioning the mod as a mod which takes advantage of the most common complaints about AA. For instance I'm one of those players who prefers XTA's approach to anti air - being able to hit both air and ground. This has motivated me to try the odd game. I think one of the biggest reasons I haven't played it more is that I am uncomfortable with the balance of XTA due to my lack of experience, and for me its not worth learning a whole new mod just to avoid what for me is a minor annoyance with anti air.
Maybe it could be worth making XTA balance similar to AA where there is not advantage gained to making it different. For example the AA llt is an ultra cheap unit that can be spammed early as anti rush protection. If you try the same trick in XTA you will crush your economy. I don't think the XTA version of the llt adds to XTA's uniqueness, so make it the same as AA's version to help players adjust to XTA easier.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I agree with everything in that quote.Foe OfTheBee wrote:...
I think XTA really is a better mod than AA, but obviously it isn't better enough to compensate for the lack of games available.
XTA is slowly dying. Little by little, it gets harder to find a game. So something has to be done to make it more popular. Nerfing Jethros and zippers is a good first step, but I think it will take more than balance changes to keep XTA alive.
Some ideas:
...
1- I think that XTA started to die fast mainly because of "expertness" in XTA. With the exception of the «above average», all others were beeing constantly pownded by us (many times severely). No wonder that almost all of the first AA players were average players, who weren't managing to play chalenging matches. Also, no wonder that most of the one sticking to XTA were old time veterans and good players. Also, it is no wonder that, once AA started to become widely played, people didn't started to fall into "expertness" and fall back to XTA again, in a cycle, because AA keeps changing it's head to it's feet.
2- I think that XTA started to slowly die because to the fact that a bad start in XTA is so unforgiven. AA is much more rushing unfriendly that XTA. It is common for noobs at XTA to lose game to a first jeffy or zipper. Should XTA's vulnerability to early rushes be changed? I think so and asked for it many times (like the comm beeing a more effective anti-rush weapon).
3- I think that XTA is slowly dying because AA is more pretty and has more units.
As a "unique selling point", like jellyman said, it is a good idea, even if only for purposes of marketing. For example, the fact that in XTA it is much less common to have jamming (less covert-ops and more standard warfare).
A third race would be awesome, especially TLL, which is a very good race. At least the early stages should bring a mass of interest, while people try TLL out and figure out the new balances/inbalances.
However, that is a tremendous task, since the present TLL is based in oTA, which has a balance very diferent of XTA's. It is such a task, that i wouldn't even start it without enough modders*modding_experience to back up that introduction. A insuccessfull project could very well mean XTA's premature death and making a new version (XTA & XTA+TLL) would dilute the userbases.
Last i saw, the laser towers were too strong along with the pops. But that may have been with that bugged version... Considering that it was not, about the pop-ups, i think that if it gets downed, the HLTs should be downed too.
you all crazy
why try to sell it???!??
we dont want to sell this mod, just balance
get your feet to ground.
lets start by the most evident stuff, or we wont get anywhere.
(see the items i named in last post).
there is already a mod noob friendly, its aa.
that why its full of em.
giz, myg, please, dont fix the hole mod at once.
i consider myself happy is we have a release balancing the crashers, so it xta games stop being crasher farms all over.
about new race, quite cool, but first get it working standalone, then we can try to add it to xta.. or will be a hell of a work.
why try to sell it???!??
we dont want to sell this mod, just balance
get your feet to ground.
lets start by the most evident stuff, or we wont get anywhere.
(see the items i named in last post).
there is already a mod noob friendly, its aa.
that why its full of em.
giz, myg, please, dont fix the hole mod at once.
i consider myself happy is we have a release balancing the crashers, so it xta games stop being crasher farms all over.
about new race, quite cool, but first get it working standalone, then we can try to add it to xta.. or will be a hell of a work.
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TheRegisteredOne
- Posts: 398
- Joined: 10 Dec 2005, 21:39
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clericvash
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 01:05
Either race would be fine, Rumad or TLL were my first choice though. All depending on how much effort you're willing to put in since there's an almost done TLL race for spring.
For the bad start issues, a stronger or simply more efficient LLT could be used to combat that as the current LLTs are well-nigh useless. That's one of the good points of AA (in my opinion).
For the bad start issues, a stronger or simply more efficient LLT could be used to combat that as the current LLTs are well-nigh useless. That's one of the good points of AA (in my opinion).
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
I actually see allot of people playing xta, its just its usually one guy playing against himself. I think there is an interest out there, and curving xta to make it easier is a good thing, but i sure hope in the end that an xta vet can kick a noobs butt. I dont want xta to become aa in that regard. If xta does that, then xta is an aa wannabe mod. We dont want to be like aa, we want to be successful like aa.
I should have internet up that should allow me to host games. Im thinking of giving tutorial lessons to those that want it. It would probably be best that the vet players take a friendly/teacher role rather than focusing on the other vets on the other team. Again i see people playing xta, but they are either so nooby or so good. Very few dont have the patience to make that jump, so they go to aa which is exactly what im talking about in regard to vet vs. newb.
Dont touch the gunships. It is a feature that rewards the vets. Nor and I's start is based on those gunships. (Also gunships are the easy solution to xta speedmetal players.) No offense but if you get swarmed by gunships in the beggining of the game, you did something wrong. It is so easy to counter and its hard on the economy of the guy that builds it. I can only see getting rid of it to make the game "easier". I play xta for strat. Do not take away strat unless you think u can make two more.
I agree with foe. It feels really good to have a krog unit. That feeling is felt in aa allot to where it is then generalized into every other unit. Isnt there some way we can add lvl3 that could add to strat? Im sure we can. Most games dont last that long anyway to use lvl3 anyway. And just because its lvl 3 doesnt mean it has to have krog units.
I do say I like aa's shield generator, it is unique, lustful, and adds strat. Maybe xta shouldnt get more krogs, but more units that are suport units that give a certain edge.
I should have internet up that should allow me to host games. Im thinking of giving tutorial lessons to those that want it. It would probably be best that the vet players take a friendly/teacher role rather than focusing on the other vets on the other team. Again i see people playing xta, but they are either so nooby or so good. Very few dont have the patience to make that jump, so they go to aa which is exactly what im talking about in regard to vet vs. newb.
Dont touch the gunships. It is a feature that rewards the vets. Nor and I's start is based on those gunships. (Also gunships are the easy solution to xta speedmetal players.) No offense but if you get swarmed by gunships in the beggining of the game, you did something wrong. It is so easy to counter and its hard on the economy of the guy that builds it. I can only see getting rid of it to make the game "easier". I play xta for strat. Do not take away strat unless you think u can make two more.
I agree with foe. It feels really good to have a krog unit. That feeling is felt in aa allot to where it is then generalized into every other unit. Isnt there some way we can add lvl3 that could add to strat? Im sure we can. Most games dont last that long anyway to use lvl3 anyway. And just because its lvl 3 doesnt mean it has to have krog units.
I do say I like aa's shield generator, it is unique, lustful, and adds strat. Maybe xta shouldnt get more krogs, but more units that are suport units that give a certain edge.
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FoeOfTheBee
- Posts: 557
- Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26
One thing that helps newbs is a newb-only room. This way they can play without getting thrashed by old-timers, and only move the all-payers room or the expert's room when they feel ready. Rank could also be determined by which room you spent your play hours in - this would help avoid having mediocre star players who have never gone up against a real pro. This would help all mods, and Spring in general, by giving newbs a chance to learn rather than smashing them flat as soon as possible.
Will AFLobby include some of these features?
Will AFLobby include some of these features?
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clericvash
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 01:05
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[KnoX]ElementalGizmo
- XTA Developer
- Posts: 266
- Joined: 24 Aug 2006, 01:33
Refering to the llt, yes they are expensive, but they punch a damn huge hole against early spam if u place them well. A strat that manny vets 4get is the use of TEATH. Having 2 rows infrunt of just one will gr8ly improve the `armour` of that llt.
Its not the fact that llt's are 2 expensive its just the fact that Noobs cant micro there commy well enough. D-gun is a awsome weapom, and is the perfect anty spam (anty krog) tool. I refuse to believe the llt is to expensive for the punch it is `caipable` of delivering. Noobs will have to learn to take it on the chin and press on with the d-gun as we all have to untill ur eco is good enough for heavy defense.
Not to mention the metal reward of the corpses after a lvl1 rush more than make up the cost of the llt. This vertion is for ballancing issues, not to make this fine remake into a AAnoob fest wanna-be.
If ur gunna make it in Xta u need a clear head, consentration and the ability to learn. Not porce the hell out of ur opponant like AA.
Here endeth my bitching.
As for the vtol increase of 200hpts, this is going through extream testing. Often around 2-5am gmt time ull see either myself of elBarto hammering away, putting up with crappy ai, trying to work out the perfect ballance. Im currantly head hunting vets to help test out the vertion. |>3374|-| and the gr8 Mongus for example. As i said b4 the change log i posted was not by anny means a final draft. The changes are like anny battle field at the moment, fluidic and constantly changing for compensaition for supream exccelance.
The new race idea sounds like the perfect neish we need, Nuraus is working on one now (soz if i spelt that wrong dude :-/ ) but wont be in this release. As for the shield generator suggested, well that would incouradge noobs; as this incouradges camping. This was nailed straight on the head by myg and elbarto, but all in all i would personally like to see what impact it would have on the stats (seeming aa is played over 5x as much as xta to my knowledge)
Plz kep the feed back flowing peeps, i read every post with interest!
Its not the fact that llt's are 2 expensive its just the fact that Noobs cant micro there commy well enough. D-gun is a awsome weapom, and is the perfect anty spam (anty krog) tool. I refuse to believe the llt is to expensive for the punch it is `caipable` of delivering. Noobs will have to learn to take it on the chin and press on with the d-gun as we all have to untill ur eco is good enough for heavy defense.
Not to mention the metal reward of the corpses after a lvl1 rush more than make up the cost of the llt. This vertion is for ballancing issues, not to make this fine remake into a AAnoob fest wanna-be.
If ur gunna make it in Xta u need a clear head, consentration and the ability to learn. Not porce the hell out of ur opponant like AA.
Here endeth my bitching.
As for the vtol increase of 200hpts, this is going through extream testing. Often around 2-5am gmt time ull see either myself of elBarto hammering away, putting up with crappy ai, trying to work out the perfect ballance. Im currantly head hunting vets to help test out the vertion. |>3374|-| and the gr8 Mongus for example. As i said b4 the change log i posted was not by anny means a final draft. The changes are like anny battle field at the moment, fluidic and constantly changing for compensaition for supream exccelance.
The new race idea sounds like the perfect neish we need, Nuraus is working on one now (soz if i spelt that wrong dude :-/ ) but wont be in this release. As for the shield generator suggested, well that would incouradge noobs; as this incouradges camping. This was nailed straight on the head by myg and elbarto, but all in all i would personally like to see what impact it would have on the stats (seeming aa is played over 5x as much as xta to my knowledge)
Plz kep the feed back flowing peeps, i read every post with interest!
I find XTA good btu there are a few problems.
In the last few months my skill at playing the game hasnt really improved, rather I've learnt howto use specific units and deal with line of fire issues.
For example I can sue pyros much better now than when i started.
The problem is it isnt quite apparent howto use units.
For example how do I effectively use a can? Can you effectively use morties? What about AK's, a lot of times I ask I get something along the lines of 'its not worth building that unit'
In the last few months my skill at playing the game hasnt really improved, rather I've learnt howto use specific units and deal with line of fire issues.
For example I can sue pyros much better now than when i started.
The problem is it isnt quite apparent howto use units.
For example how do I effectively use a can? Can you effectively use morties? What about AK's, a lot of times I ask I get something along the lines of 'its not worth building that unit'