Absolute Annihilation 2.11
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Those rocket kbots really arent that effective. A microed warrior can handle lotsa rockos with ease.Machiosabre wrote:I wouldn't mind the thud getting more hp but I'd rather have the storm be a bit more expensive than the rocko cheaper, last thing aa needs is more rockos.
Its just some kind of belief spreading that they are the best. Warriors for the win! Without autohealing though the warriors become much les usefull as you cannot benefit from them staying even barely alive and then regen to fight another match with full health
yeah it takes half a shot, remember caydr boosted the animation speed?Cabbage wrote:thud already has 60 more HP than the hammer. The speed diffrence is miniscule, and hammers have to wait for their weapons to open (small i know, but it adds up..) Leave them as they are.
And cost wise the hammer is just better the thud is slower thus needs moe HP sounds reasonable to me...
Egarwaen wrote:YOU COULDN'T. This change is pointless and stupid. Now Peepers will be totally useless at their assigned role once the enemy gets a pair of missile towers up, but will not be any worse at screening against Mercuries.Caydr wrote:Peepers/Finks now have a 20-second reload and only .5 efficiency, meaning that only half of the flares will be effective. This means you won't be able to indefinitely screen against mercuries with a couple of scout planes.
Do you even understand how scout planes were used to screen against AA? Since you apparently don't, I'll explain it to you. You build a wing of 10 or 15 and send them in just ahead of your bombers. Every Mercury in your enemy's base wastes its first missile on them. Your bombers then hit their target and destroy it, the Mercuries reload, and your bombers probably die.
This is good. It introduces an interesting use for a basic unit, and means that Mercuries/Screamers aren't the be-all end-all of anti-air. You need other solutions as well, like fighter patrols or anti-swarm turrets, to catch the scout planes before all your Mercuries waste their shot and to help take down the bombers.
Your change does nothing to prevent this behaviour. So flares are now 50% effective. Whoop-de-doo. Now I just use 20 Peepers instead of 10. Even if they had no flares at all, they'd still be useful for this, simply because they're a cheap aircraft that can force the enemy's Mercuries to waste a shot.
What your change does do is make Peepers useless at their supposed job - recon. They used to have a reasonable chance of getting past light AA defenses to spot what was behind them. Now they won't be able to.
Might as well change the description from "Scout plane" to "Long-range missile tower decoy", because that's all they're good for after this nerf.
Why bother? Seriously, why bother? Air plants are already the cheapest L1 factory (by a large margin, IIRC) and are easily affordable with pocket change at any time after about 10 minutes into the game. I can see no possible balance improvement from this change, and a significant problem.Third, air plants have been made more affordable by reducing their metal cost by 100. Fighters have had a corresponding increase of 10% to all their costs so that spamming fighters won't be too much easier. This doesn't amount to much, but if you build 15 fighters you'll have paid the difference.
And here we see the significant problems.Fighters or just a good number of anti-air guns (especially flak) will keep them away very effectively.
1) You've just made the counter to your new super-air-transports significantly more expensive.
2) The other counter to your new super-air-transports is level 2 and not exactly cheap. So now you don't just need flak for gunship defense, you need it almost as soon a you hit L2 for airdrop defense. Wonderful. That's going to make big games a total pain in the ass.
For the better? Really? Have you playtested these? If so, who'd you play against? They don't even seem particularly well thought-out, never mind a potential improvement.This is just one of many changes for the better you'll see in the next version of AA.
QFT. Especially since cons are the first thing to die when the plasma cannons open fire.Hellspawn wrote:I'll give you example. You have 2 armies on different side. One army is in base (porcing player) and other one is atacking it. Both armies get damaged. Autoheal is off. Who do you think will reheal his army. The one atacking or the porcer which has units in his base where there aswell many cons. Let's be honest. Noone will bring cons with him for atack porpuse.
And hey, guess what? With the airdrops, you can now porc, mass an army, airlift it right past your enemy's army, and wipe out his base! Awesome!
Yeah, big games are going to be shit if these changes go through. 1v1s probably won't be affected, but anything bigger than a 2v2 is going to be a total porcfest. But that's what you get when you listen to people who don't play the damn mod.
Every single point Egar has made (with the exception of autoheal, and even that pales in comparison to the craptitude of Atlases/Valkrieys have MORE SURVIVABILITY than peepers) is totally true.
Caydr, the Peeper/Fink were PERFECT in the role that they were. L1 airplant cost just the right amount. The only change in air balance at all needed was the flares on Vulture/Eagle reduced.
And now you're reducing fighter strength...
And why change L1 balance at all1? 50 points, big whoop. L1 balance is more or less PERFECT as is (Flash/insti was only point that some didnt like, and even then that is only one thing).
Caydr- wtf man
I think Warriors got a boost at some point recently... I think around 1.46, Rockos were so far superior to all the other L1 kbots that they were used to the exclusion of others - many players got out of the habit of using things other than rockos. I know I only switch over to hammers when my squads start getting larger than 10 in number. Although the selection for Core kbots has always been a bit shorter.hawkki wrote:Those rocket kbots really arent that effective. A microed warrior can handle lotsa rockos with ease.Machiosabre wrote:I wouldn't mind the thud getting more hp but I'd rather have the storm be a bit more expensive than the rocko cheaper, last thing aa needs is more rockos.
Its just some kind of belief spreading that they are the best. Warriors for the win! Without autohealing though the warriors become much les usefull as you cannot benefit from them staying even barely alive and then regen to fight another match with full health
And also note that the Rocko is 88% as useful as a Storm, while the Thud is 88% as useful as the Hammer. So with a big swarm of Rockos/Storms and Thuds/Hammers facing off against each other, the two are going to even out. (And you do need to mix them)KDR_11k wrote:Remember, those usefulness ratings are only estimates.
The L1 KBot balance is actually kind of interesting right now. Rocket KBots are very useful early on, but drop in usefulness to about equal Plasma KBots as the game progresses. (Because they can't mass and suck at assaulting up hills.) Small swarms of Scout KBots quickly get pwnt by LLTs and Rocket KBots, but can do disgusting things to Plasma masses.
I think the L1 balance is pretty good, with the exception of the Instigator/Flash. By the numbers and based on in-game experience, Peewees/AKs are fine. Sure, a micro'd AK will pwn a Peewee. But the Peewees have a massive DPS advantage when they get on top of things. (89 VS 63) Not sure how to fix the Instigator/Flash. Maybe a small HP buff for the Flash so it can survive to use its short-range weapons and a turret speed buff so it can track and pwn anything that gets too close?
Warriors are actually worth using now, which is cool. They got buffed a little when the anti-raid armor was removed, I think.
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Drone_Fragger
- Posts: 1341
- Joined: 04 Dec 2005, 15:49
GIVE ME GEM CAYDR! ITS THE BESTEST, RIGHT?
just add in the cheese hat peewee and dgun flash and then AA is complete tbh.
Flash should be a bit cheaper, that's all it is needed. I think core should have slightly vehicle advantage because arm has a slight advatage in bots.
Fighters IMO shouldnt be expensier. It's already hard to defend vs lvl 2 air (with lvl 1 you basically have very bad chances).
Lvl 1 bots seem more or less even to me.
Fighters IMO shouldnt be expensier. It's already hard to defend vs lvl 2 air (with lvl 1 you basically have very bad chances).
Lvl 1 bots seem more or less even to me.
Well, it would put L1 fighter strength closer in line with the rest of L1 unit strength - after all, there's a damn short list of L1 units that, dollar-for-power, hold a candle to their L2 counterparts. How well do Rockos hold back the equivalent value in Cans, for example? I mean, compare the L1 fighters (the de-facto standard for L1 anti-air) vs. L1 Anti-Air Kbots (nigh-useless against L2 units). One poster pointed out that gunships and crashers are pretty even combat-per-metal, but considering the increased mobility, speed, and versatility of gunships vs. an anti-air kbot, it hardly seems balanced until you consider the L1-L2 jump.Hellspawn wrote:Flash should be a bit cheaper, that's all it is needed. I think core should have slightly vehicle advantage because arm has a slight advatage in bots.
Fighters IMO shouldnt be expensier. It's already hard to defend vs lvl 2 air (with lvl 1 you basically have very bad chances).
Lvl 1 bots seem more or less even to me.
Actually lvl 2 air is very useful atm. It's so useful some players even use it as main lvl 2 tech.Dragon45 wrote:Again, because of insane power/range of Screamer/Mercury, and the general usefulness of jethro swarms, i fail to see why a L2 AA kbot will do anything except make air even more useless than it is.
Of course on proper map (not map where you have small base with fully AA). With my experience people don't even build AA in 95% cases untill they see opponent has air and almost none makes lvl 2 AA (unless game becomes really late).
Dragon45 wrote:Again, because of insane power/range of Screamer/Mercury, and the general usefulness of jethro swarms, i fail to see why a L2 AA kbot will do anything except make air even more useless than it is.
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewt ... start=2000
my third post. Read, then get back about it.