Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 17 Aug 2006, 14:51

... YES! It's harder, but it's defently worth it! besides, if your enemy is porcing, you are uncontested, and you don't have to worry to much about defences untill your defences MEET his defences... and if your both expanding, you both suffer from the drawbacks! if you can exploit em, you gain an advantge!

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 17 Aug 2006, 15:43

No, it just sounds like endless mindless tedium....

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 17 Aug 2006, 16:26

Cabbage wrote:No, it just sounds like endless mindless tedium....

Agreed. "More strategic" is not a good justification. "Better gameplay", yes. "More options", yes. In this case, it's just adding more required micro tasks that do nothing but distract you from the interesting stuff - economy management and combat. It adds no more options.

I seem to remember that the default autoheal rate is well less than 600 HP/minute. Isn't it closer to 100/minute? Even if it is, you're making a lot of assumptions here. Your attack still gained ground if you managed to destroy enemy units or structures, and the purpose isn't to wipe out his defences but push past them. And 600 HP is pocket change. A group of 5 AKs will wipe that out in just over a second of fire.

As for air cons, they already have a use. They've got no unfold time, so they're perfect for reclaiming or building Dragon's Teeth.

espylaub · Post by **espylaub** » 17 Aug 2006, 16:57

Egarwaen wrote: As for air cons, they already have a use. They've got no unfold time, so they're perfect for reclaiming or building Dragon's Teeth.

Good point, now that you mention it.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 17 Aug 2006, 17:00

A manual? You think the game is that vanilla plain? This is TA, not starcraft. There is no rock paper scissors balance, no oneway to do anything; nothing that is the only option in a given situation. Ever. Everything that's so awesome (dareisay beautiful?) about Spring and AA is emergent; its why people get turned off so easily when they have little actual experience with it.

lol yes the game definately has elements of R/P/S balancing, armour classes anyone?
but that has thankfully been reduced so most balancing is done with speeds and costs and buildtimes

Agreed. "More strategic" is not a good justification. "Better gameplay", yes. "More options", yes. In this case, it's just adding more required micro tasks that do nothing but distract you from the interesting stuff - economy management and combat. It adds no more options.

I seem to remember that the default autoheal rate is well less than 600 HP/minute. Isn't it closer to 100/minute? Even if it is, you're making a lot of assumptions here. Your attack still gained ground if you managed to destroy enemy units or structures, and the purpose isn't to wipe out his defences but push past them. And 600 HP is pocket change. A group of 5 AKs will wipe that out in just over a second of fire.

As for air cons, they already have a use. They've got no unfold time, so they're perfect for reclaiming or building Dragon's Teeth.

QFT. I think we need a elite place to discuss strategy and balance which isn't clogged up by the noobs, any relevant comments noobs make in passing could be duely noted and discussed there by the good players, with no flaming, no forum drama and above all no idiots!
If we ever get such a forum i think you easily merit a place Edgarwaen <3

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 17 Aug 2006, 17:14

AND I WOULD BE YOUR KING!

... perhaps

... possibly

.... please?

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 17 Aug 2006, 18:29

Min3mat wrote:I think we need a elite place to discuss strategy and balance which isn't clogged up by the noobs, any relevant comments noobs make in passing could be duely noted and discussed there by the good players, with no flaming, no forum drama and above all no idiots!

I don't think so. These threads can actually be surprisingly educational for newbies, and Caydr seems to be pretty good at wading through the big huge flamey discussions of doom and finding the good bits. (And when he's not, he gets quickly corrected.)

Even this discussion's produced some good stuff - the 2 minute delay/3-5 minute repair, for example, is worth at least trying in a mutator or whatever. Unlike the "no autorepair zomg" it doesn't add tedious required micro.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 17 Aug 2006, 18:58

a long delay (yes, 3 minutes is al ong time in game time; it can be over 10% of the game usually) as I have said, basically kills half the benefits of autoheal regardless of how quickly the repair rate is after that.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:00

AND I WOULD BE YOUR KING!

... perhaps

... possibly

.... please?

hell yes ;D

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:03

Hooray! Bow before you're new Master!

Now go fourth upon winged chariots and bring me the head of the infidel! (Lathan)

EDIT: Head of the infidel may change at any point depending of silly comments posted in this thread.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:11

Air cons? Useless? No way. They are awesome for sucking rocks and trees and wrecks, and there are some leet h4x-strats (not really) that you can do with them...

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:11

:O
[serious]
welcome oh president
[/serious]
:{O

besides lathan isn't a actual infidel as such, he is sort of annoying i guess but he CAN actually play spring to a certain extent. Probably pwns the pants off of me now that i am employed xD

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:14

Min3mat has a job?

OMG you're an old man :D

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:39

Egarwaen wrote: Agreed. "More strategic" is not a good justification. "Better gameplay", yes. "More options", yes. In this case, it's just adding more required micro tasks that do nothing but distract you from the interesting stuff - economy management and combat. It adds no more options.

I say it fits "Better gameplay". It forces player to rely on support as i explained in the last page. it will force players to retreat to their BASES and not just "natrual" ground to get healed, which i find better then just pulling back a phew inches.

Econmy management and combat? How does transports fit in that? Do Radars fit in that? scouts? they are combat natured, they aren't producing rez. And don't give me that "they support by giving the combat units more intel or moving them." A con that supports then? what's the diffrence? This change "forces" pepole to use it just as much AA "forces" pepole to raid, or bring artillery with you, or buy aircraft when the enemy has no AA...

I seem to remember that the default autoheal rate is well less than 600 HP/minute. Isn't it closer to 100/minute? Even if it is, you're making a lot of assumptions here. Your attack still gained ground if you managed to destroy enemy units or structures, and the purpose isn't to wipe out his defences but push past them. And 600 HP is pocket change. A group of 5 AKs will wipe that out in just over a second of fire.

Well, i made a small mistake there... the deafult Idleautoheal time is more close to 20 seconds, not 10. Then 10 per second, 100, for 10 seconds, 600 for 1 minute. So counting that, 400 per minute, making it 1000 for 2 minutes (due to startuptime removed). And that can mean alot. a gap of 3 minutes will heal EVERYTHING YOU OWN 1600 hp. That means that if you kill 2-3 HLT's to a point of near death, then come back the next 3 minutes with a new big force to make the final push, they are all repaired for no cost at all.

As for air cons, they already have a use. They've got no unfold time, so they're perfect for reclaiming or building Dragon's Teeth.

More of a purpose then? other then building a lone mex on a single far to reach island or reclaiming, they could be use for fast healing on the frontline.

No, it just sounds like endless mindless tedium....

Like computer games?

Microing AK's are also tedius, yet it makes them more effective. Natural part of AA. Lotsa things are tedius, but they are still in. Since there are reasons to keep them in. I find reasons to implent this. You don't. That's why we dissagree.

LathanStanley · Post by **LathanStanley** » 17 Aug 2006, 19:43

/me stands up with a face like hitler and rabbles off something in german,....

NOW YOU WILL AGREE WITH ME AND FOLLOW ME LIKE MINDLESS PEONS AND LIKE IT!

/me does some kinda screwy salute and walks around like there's somethin in my butt...

WE WILL KILL ALL!

/end brainwash tactics...

thanks for the "lathan CAN play.." min3mat... I've been needing someone to credit me...

BoredJoe · Post by **BoredJoe** » 17 Aug 2006, 20:12

*cough* 3 people (2 of which have barely played the latest AA) repeating their opinions several times doesn't mean that the general consensus agree with the changes put forward considering how tiny the forum community is compared to the actual community that play AA regularly *cough*

*deep breath*

i can agree to autoheal being nerfed (esp. on buildings) but making it 5-10 minutes is the equivilent of making autoheal have practically zero point- by the time it kicks in, no matter how fast it heals, the units in question will be almost obsolete or dead.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 17 Aug 2006, 20:19

Kixxe wrote:I say it fits "Better gameplay". It forces player to rely on support as i explained in the last page. it will force players to retreat to their BASES and not just "natrual" ground to get healed, which i find better then just pulling back a phew inches.

Already happens. Pull back a few inches, you get pwnt when your enemy's mobile units start boiling out from behind his defences.

As for autoheal... Read back a few pages.

More of a purpose then? other then building a lone mex on a single far to reach island or reclaiming, they could be use for fast healing on the frontline.

Not going to work out, even if a con aircraft could repair a unit instantly. Mercuries and fighter patrols. Doesn't matter how much AA you have with your units, a handful of Freedom Fighters will take out twice their cost in Con Aircraft easily. A handful of Hawks will do it and probably survive. They're just too fragile for work like this, especailly since they chain-explode.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 17 Aug 2006, 21:09

You know, 5 minutes for buildings and 2-3 minutes for units sounds fine.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 17 Aug 2006, 21:31

Min3mat, you are calling myself, kixxe, and lathan noobs in AA?

Heh, ok.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 17 Aug 2006, 21:36

You know, 5 minutes for buildings and 2-3 minutes for units sounds fine.

Once again; that is a small eternity in gameplay terms. Just give it progressive heal aftre like 20-30 seconds or so...

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11