New mod id like to do...

[unpossible]

If zombies can reclaim they can slowly tear down walls.

ooooh yes!

edit: best make walls units and not features so that the reclaiming time is more controllable than just through metal cost (is it correct that it's buildtime based for units?)

[KDR_11k]

I think the opposite, one on one humans should be stronger than zombies but more expensive (after all, in a last-survivors scenario zombies would be everywhere while normal humans would be rare). Perhaps zombies could have stronger attacks but much shorter range so the humans could gun them down before they come in range which would have to be overcome with superior numbers. Of course production speeds should make it possible for zombies to outnumber the humans 10-to-1 easily.

I'm against vehicles, they just wouldn't fit into the context. Maybe a scout on a motorbike but no combat vehicles. Even that scout would probably be unnecessary, humans should be able to run faster than zombies.

One idea for overall gameplay would be to have the zombies be somewhat stronger than the humans with the humans fighting a retreating battle, trying to hold their fortifications and farms as long as possible (of course with defensive structures as well) while having their main building produce a nuke that can kill the zombie cemetary in one strike or wipe out all zombie units and buildings on the map (might need to damage farms as well), depending on whether com ends game should be on or off for the average game. So it'd be the goal for the humans to survive long enough to finish the nuke, which would of course take forever and huge amounts of ressources to build. After all Spring doesn't support alternative victory conditions yet.

Of course this would only work well in a team game if the teams aren't mixed between zombie and human players.

An alternative to the nuke would be to give the main building a super-powerful beam weapon that looks like a holy ray, fires very, very fast, kills a target in one hit and is jammed until the main building has existed for a set amount of time (which could be displayed by having a cross slowly get erected on the building). Of course that would result in pretty much a draw if two players use the humans against each other...

Maybe a mutator that gives a main building with different countdowns or no superweapon at all.

[Zoombie]

I always thought humains were stronger via inganuity and guns. That is ranged and smarts. Zombies are stronger via strength and endurance. I mean... they are already dead, so not much other then fire can really hurt them. Fire or taking out the brain, depending on what zombies you have.

So somone should have a set of rules these zombies follow. If they are consistent, then they are better zombies. Thats why the George Remero movies are so great. Cause they are consistent!

[KDR_11k]

I'd say slower, cheaper, more HP, more damage but much less range. A human could gun a zombie down before it even moves in range but if one of them gets close enough it creates a bloodbath.

[Zoombie]

Sounds about right.

[Noruas]

Theres a bug in spring where all the units most cost atleast 1 metal(food) even if its set to 0, and that 1 point can stop the first farm from ever starting for humans to start.

[unpossible]

Theres a bug in spring where all the units most cost atleast 1 metal(food) even if its set to 0, and that 1 point can stop the first farm from ever starting for humans to start.

what do you mean?

[Noruas]

Name=Farm;
Description=Produces Food off Good Soil;
BuildCostEnergy=100;//supplies
BuildCostMetal=0;//food

BuildCostMetal=0; is also BuildCostMetal=1; is also after spring interpers it, there mightof been a bug at one time when units did not cost any metal. but try to make anything cost 0 metal and play it in spring and it gets put to 1 metal.

[KDR_11k]

Of course, since you start with your storage filled to the brim, that shouldn't be an issue. Plus the main building could produce a nominal amount so you'll never stand there with ZERO production.

[unpossible]

i don't think using small numbers for the resources is very wise with spring. make the costs bigger so that farms costing 1 metal is totally insignificant

[Noruas]

I know what ur saying, but cmon! Its a bug, it should be fixed.

[unpossible]

yeah. it's probably a div 0 problem...easier to leave it as it is as it's not been an issue...i think 'zero cost' has to be 'nearly zero cost' for the time being.

[Noruas]

Question, does the not reclaim tag work yet?
I suppose the tech tree should be sumthin like this:
Towncenter= Militia and Volunteer
Volunteer=Watch Tower, Farm, Trading Post, Town Center, Basic Barracks
u know, this is only a roughdraft.
Barracks= Milita, Sniper, Rocket Launcher(with pistol) and Commando, and ur favorite human with a katana.
Milita is just a rifflemen, like indirrect counter to zombie.
Sniper kills everything in one shot, but if it gets caught its screwed, Rocket Launcher is ok against hordes and buildings, and he can somwhat do damage with a pistol if they are too close. Commando is lightly armed with a pistol, but he throws gernades at buildings to destroy them and outruns zombies. Dgun most be used to throw gernades...
Human with katana charges zombies and can hack 2 to 3 very fast if he doesnt get hit.
Advanced Barracks may include, Motorcyclists, 2 manned machine guns, Scraptanks (tanks that look like they were once cars with sheets of metal and a large gun placed on top, like an armored car) , stuff like that.

I am defiantly not sure about zombies.
Graveyard = Fresh Zombies, Crow scout thingy( can get shot down )
Fresh Zombies = Graveyard, (Some cheap imitation of a farm but alot worse, so it still needs to reclaim dead people for food, and even eachother.) Some sort of converter for supplies, Cementary or some sort of spawn for the dead. Zombies dont use towers, or buildings of that matter.
Cementary = Fresh Zombies, Vampires? immune to bullets but the silver katana men kills them? ??? what else? Radar Zombie aka detects smell of fresh meat! help me out here...

[Aun]

You could use the seismic detection thing in the next version of spring for the 'radar' zombies - zombie dogs or something?

[Noruas]

i was thinking about zombie dogs, but most people dont think about animals as being zombies.

[Elmokki]

I think the opposite, one on one humans should be stronger than zombies but more expensive (after all, in a last-survivors scenario zombies would be everywhere while normal humans would be rare). Perhaps zombies could have stronger attacks but much shorter range so the humans could gun them down before they come in range which would have to be overcome with superior numbers. Of course production speeds should make it possible for zombies to outnumber the humans 10-to-1 easily.

Exactly, I said relatively - you should get more powerful amount of zombies than humans at the same time, so human player would need more micromanagement and wits to survive via chokepoints etc. Like you'd gain 20 zombies for 5 humans, while 5 humans could easily still match 15 zombies without serious tactics.

I'm against vehicles, they just wouldn't fit into the context. Maybe a scout on a motorbike but no combat vehicles. Even that scout would probably be unnecessary, humans should be able to run faster than zombies.

Probably yes, even though they're cool their use might be relatively useless. However if we can somehow build a map which is more like a city (like blocks of apartments and you move around the streets only) and you can get zombies spawn all around, a jeep might be a good solution (but expensive one too) when zombies would normally surprise you from every direction. This is one of the things that will need serious balancing and testing before deciding - and shouldn't really be in first versions due to that :)

One idea for overall gameplay would be to have the zombies be somewhat stronger than the humans with the humans fighting a retreating battle, trying to hold their fortifications and farms as long as possible (of course with defensive structures as well) while having their main building produce a nuke that can kill the zombie cemetary in one strike or wipe out all zombie units and buildings on the map (might need to damage farms as well), depending on whether com ends game should be on or off for the average game. So it'd be the goal for the humans to survive long enough to finish the nuke, which would of course take forever and huge amounts of ressources to build. After all Spring doesn't support alternative victory conditions yet.

That sounds very good actually, and it allows you to kill the zombies by "regular ways" if you want to.

[Elmokki]

If zombies can reclaim they can slowly tear down walls.

ooooh yes!

edit: best make walls units and not features so that the reclaiming time is more controllable than just through metal cost (is it correct that it's buildtime based for units?)

That works awesomely for the idea of bigger zombies being able to tear stronger walls down faster. More builder speed for them and make the stronger wars slower to reclaim.

I'd say slower, cheaper, more HP, more damage but much less range. A human could gun a zombie down before it even moves in range but if one of them gets close enough it creates a bloodbath.

A bit hard to balance for some maps, but yeah, that's the way to go in my opinion too :)

[Noruas]

KDR_11k wrote:

One idea for overall gameplay would be to have the zombies be somewhat stronger than the humans with the humans fighting a retreating battle, trying to hold their fortifications and farms as long as possible (of course with defensive structures as well) while having their main building produce a nuke that can kill the zombie cemetary in one strike or wipe out all zombie units and buildings on the map (might need to damage farms as well), depending on whether com ends game should be on or off for the average game. So it'd be the goal for the humans to survive long enough to finish the nuke, which would of course take forever and huge amounts of ressources to build. After all Spring doesn't support alternative victory conditions yet.

That sounds very good actually, and it allows you to kill the zombies by "regular ways" if you want to.

Maybe we could also name the nuke the cure, and it needs to be launched into the atmosphere, and it kills zombies after hitting the ground (aka empty rocket) so it would prevent porcing and stocking up, so zombies must be aggresive against humans, it will be taken into consideration.
Yes walls are good idea aswell.

[unpossible]

i suppose the walls could alway be manned with a mg turret (read: person with weapon standing on them) or something more basic. it'd make more sense to have them as units anyways. perhaps this would stop the humans spamming untouchable chokepoints.

[Elmokki]

For advanced zombies my idea would generally be to basically make bigger zombies or faster zombies (with possibly nastier attacks and some throwing gravestones etc). You can get them generic zombie names quite easily.

"Living dead"
"Restless corpse"
"Rotting cadaver"
"Festering remains"
"Marching Rotpile"
"Abomination" (this needs to be some big combo of multiple zombies)

Basically a more advanced zombie would be just a bigger (or in some cases possibly faster, but those should be rarish "skirmish"-zombies to intercept volunteers in midgame or something, nothing spammable) and faster in reclaiming (=demolishing) walls. I still myself like the idea of those "Rotting gunmen" which would basically be regular zombies with a very inaccurate weapon for long range and still regular attack for short range too. How about a zombie which is amphibious and has no counter, but is a "last chance" for those maps with water.

Also remember, the humans won't be able to 100% porc, they need to get those farms.