feedback(only)for builders_wars/constructors mod

[emmanuel]

http://www.unknown-files.net/browse.php?dlid=1504

Very fashionable indeed. It's spelled Al-Qaida by the way.

Feedback: I "played" the mod now.

Pros:
- The models actually look good, at least some of them (comm for example which reminds me of a steam walker from one of these board games)
- That three barreled thing called armccrus (what does FF have to do with this?) looks like a defaced Leman Russ (at least a little bit). It'd look better with a different turret.
- These little cute pilots look cool (even though they look like puppets if you zoom all the way in).

Cons:
- Dragonteeth, while looking ugly they are pretty useless as your superworkers simply would crush them
- Texturing (no, not the textures, they're fine)
- Unit descriptions, although they're exactly your style
- 49 movement classes (keep the unused in a seperate text file, not in the moveinfo.tdf)
- That vrocket truck thing.
- Game crashes when enemy comm is destroyed.
- The pointless factories and everything else I missed (it's not that there's much in there yet anyway).
- Everything else I left out

Conclusion:
I'm a little bit confused what I wasted the last 10 minutes on. And it's not fully "fonctunial" because it crashes when I kill the enemy comm.


Emmanual wrote:
i study since 20years about video games war robotic mecanical and i hav a lot of idea and concepts =i love it
i love fps/rts jonction)


Erm is that true? Are you really in the 30s to 40s and act like 10? That'd be very embarrassing now...

i hav 36year
armcruss and all units are others mods commanders
names hav an "SS" to end not change
feature can t be crushed but i will see for this
i not understand for rest =explain more or post pics
this mod hav not ai =>only spawning units
maybe the 49units is for r3 or r4 i uploaded a new ver
here=
http://www.unknown-files.net/browse.php?dlid=1504

Yes, the scalar correction made you mod look much nicer. You admitted that. I don't spam your threads, I have always tried to help you because I liked what you did and wanted to see it get completed but you perpetually throw derogatory terms at me.

thanks i like your work but not your choises
i started to be really nasty when you come for joke/spam
firstly we flame because i talk bad but not bad mind in this
you prefere spaming but you does can post personnal because your priority is relationship between communauty and that explain your choise =i understand but not aprob=i prefere no help so i stay honest(john=joke for knowers)

[Das Bruce]

As a side note your mod is NOT GPL, you've used ota sounds textures and models.

[Aun]

That giant FARK thing looks like it's a modified TA script.

[emmanuel]

my mod ...is my work ...sure

remove all sounds textures and scripts and clean others files=>

some .3do stay...maybe 20 are my s ...AND THEY ARE SHIT TO EAT !!!

[Das Bruce]

my mod ...is my work ...sure

But its not your work. Its cavedogs work.

[emmanuel]

no my work with my time (with cavedog material ,3th party&wings tools)for ota/taspring
and remind the tread about a mod without copyrighed material where we posted last few months
sure my goal is remove cavedog and not mine material but i dont know scripting texturing and make maps(for now)

[smoth]

However, removing the "borrowed" models is the first step.

[emmanuel]

i can remove only stuff i know work
i cannot remove scripts or textures
because i m only 3d/fbi/tdf/sound worker
i hav make gafs for ota
but my textures for taspring in.3do don t work
and i m not reaching to understand upspring1.3

i prefere to make all myself but for moment impossibl
but i supose for a complet unikmaker :
maybe it s funny to see a unit change
(ex=i put 4 leg to armcom=not very good but when far that can look corect)

[Argh]

Hi. Emmanuel, I tried your mod. Here are my comments. Please do not take offense, this is critique, not meant to make you feel bad

1. This game design doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand what I'm supposed to build, and the unit descriptions don't help me understand what the units do. I could open up your mod and read through the unit stats, but that would be too much work- write better descriptions, and ask for feedback from players, until it is clear what units do what.

2. You need to learn how to script, if you're going to make a good Spring mod. It is very clear that one or more of the units in the mod is very poorly scripted, because it is causing 100% spikes in processor usage when combat starts. This is not your fault, if I have read your previous posts correctly- it appears you have never learned how to script. You must learn, or your mod will be totally unplayable, as it is now.

3. You do not credit all of the modders whose units you are using. This is very rude. You probably do not realise how rude that is, so I'm telling you now. Making unit models and scripting them is a lot of work. Give credit to the people who made the units and scripts you are using.

4. The models and artwork need a lot more work. There is no common visual theme, and everything feels like you just borrowed from a dozen different mods and threw it all together. This is OK for a beginner project, but if you want to be taken seriously, you need to make the art look much more professional. People will not play your game if it doesn't look good!

Overall, I found the mod totally unplayable at this time. You are clearly trying very hard to make this mod, and while I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this, you need to learn a lot more of the technical skills needed to make it work better.

Before you get mad at me, go download the first versions of NanoBlobs. They were terrible, but I have learned from my mistakes, and it keeps getting better and better. It's very hard, when you are making a game design that's not the same as anybody else's. I understand your struggle. But what you've made needs a lot more work before it will be playable.

[emmanuel]

thanks
its emotional for me to recept my first tecnical feedback
about 100%spikes in processor usage i thinked that only on water maps but after i remind some nolag tests
it s only bads scripts?
i notice 2 .cob error messages
= sfx for smoke and missing for explod
i will try to hav a complet log.txt
but i don t know how to do for
is spikes result by syntax error or miss in scripts or overloaded scripts ?
i will try to remov the bads scripts and send to you the .cob

hav you notice others causes of lags can resulting from my .fbi .tdf .3do ???
someone said poly count is not important
=it s false :i tested it but i dont found the max count...

i warned user :this mod is just an lot of unit builder with weapons unbalanced
and for now i try to found correct values for :
crushing ground
& hit planes with balistic and missiles only(+flamer-electro)

i try this week shields
now i will test new explods
& new tags like targetingwhenmove...

you hav right for 3d :
it s again a search for balance
i like do it
and like my drawing style on paper without nice deco
but without personnal script i must obey to moves

i dont give credit because i love scripting
& wish be one of you
& hav idea about a super script for me
i will give credit for all scripters !!!

don t search an playable game mod for now in my work
i start taspring in random 10or 15 time by hour for look the changes
my self i not remind the name of unit and menu because it s not my units...
only 7or 8 units are ended for the first release(for me unit is not weapon load or price )
really you think the little not looking nice???
the moto-bipod with mg+missile ?
the wahrammer-dreadnaught copy with crew(my avatar) ???
if not none of my work never you will like because that first endeds units
for now
1 i try to know all tags files
2 adding all comander scripts in game
3 balance this
4 start to learn scripting for MY unit
5 look .3do texture and for upspring(seems dificult to texture !?!)
thanks
very happy to your post
(it seems you choise to make a complete mod
by adding ended unit before release next ver:
a playable mod release isnt?)

[Argh]

Emmanuel:

1. I think that the models look nice, but the textures do not. Textures are 99% of what makes a model really look nice. It is very hard imagining that the OTA textures will ever do your models justice. You need to learn how to skin your models properly in S3O, so that they can look their best. There are lots of tutorials available about low-poly skinning techniques on the Internet, for people using various software packages, including Wings, which is freeware. It's not rocket science. It just requires practice and patience.

2. I have never seen a TDF tag cause 100% processor usage. The only things I have seen do this are BOS scripts that are going into continuous loops. This can result either from BOS scripts that are checking for a condition(TRUE) too many times a second (anything higher than 10X / second is likely to cause problems) or just has an endless loop. Bughunting those types of errors requires that you go through your scripts and troubleshoot them, by commenting out whole sections of the code and then seeing if the problem persists.

For example, you can have an aiming script that doesn't work correctly, because it's not setting SIG_AIM1, etc., correctly, or is waiting for a move / turn that never completes due to incorrectly set RestoreAfterDelay sleep times. This is easy to fix... once you understand BOS well enough to troubleshoot your code.

In your case, since you're still new to this... I'd suggest taking every unit out of the mod, then adding them back into the buildtrees, one by one, as you rigorously test them in the game engine. When you find one that results in lots of lag... it's time to troubleshoot it until you have found the problem.

I would offer to help you with this... but quite frankly, it's time-consuming work, and you need to learn how to do this yourself, if you're going to write a mod. Anybody can just grab some random units from UnitUniverse or whatever and throw it into a "mod". However, many of those units are very poorly scripted, and need serious fixes before they can be used. Those of us who are writing new mods from scratch, or heavily modifying existing content (such as E&E) are having to deal with the same problems you are, trust me! However, writing new units from scratch makes this a lot less hard, actually, because you can keep your unit designs really simple and easy to work with until you understand what you're doing. Half the problems people have with BOS scripting have to do with the fact that they design their models very poorly, or plan grandiose designs that are very difficult to get working right, even if you're an expert like zxwyg, Gnome, or HanSolo. I am not nearly at their level, so I make NanoBlobs units work by keeping them as simple as possible.

With what you're doing in your mod, given the theme of Builders_War... you really need to start with the basics... build a unit from the ground up, including the script, and teach yourself the concepts you can use to make more complicated content later on. Your models are pretty cool, and the concept behind the mod is unique, and could be fun, but until you learn the scripting skills you need, nobody will play it, because it will operate very poorly.

BTW, one last note: make use of the "B" key in Spring, to see the Developer Console. Using that console can tell you where you're having problems with your mod. For example, I have been fixing the latest builds of NanoBlobs after finding that Sim Time was using the majority of processor time. I changed a lot of things in the mod to try to minimize Sim Time, and the mod plays a lot better as a result

[emmanuel]

maybe i need a tuto for read the "b"key" info
i disagree=not evry boby can drag and drop units for build a mod
it s request for me two month of totalA study
for build menu and fix old id(my first modding step 2years ago)

making is a great time cost
but learning alone is very more dificult and long

i disagree for texturing work

i test the game without texture (just color for unit )
=it s 10x less nice
but a good game it s half 3d&script and half for all others stuff

remind old time when texture don t exist
some good release existed

removing all 3d/scripts and the game changing is more impressiv
than remov texture& sound

each time i choose for a work place
=tdf fbi is priority after my first 3d own design
=if not it s not a mod but an unit making

is for you :
an game where all units are fido level scripted (4mobil legs+xyzTOOLS...) can be out of lag (for 1000unit in battle to screen )

i agree for do all itself
is a great freedom
and a personnal concept without half feature

lot of good(?) scripts are only artwork without game/mod raise

the commander is the first unit to make
but the end for learning...
if really some great commanders are released? (vs ota)

all this is easy when understanded
but for this we must firstly understand how to found tuto !
(making again itself i supose ...)