Absolute Annihilation 2.11

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 31 Jul 2006, 14:18

Isnt the unit designed to scout things out?

Why make a T2 unit useless because it can do what its supposed to, its like nerfing a artillery because it outranges defence, except this has an even smaller effect on gameplay.

Its not like people are losing games unfairly because of this. Scout planes are already underused as it is.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 31 Jul 2006, 15:21

Because it's to good at the job? for example, level 1 atry outranging annis?

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 31 Jul 2006, 16:58

Reducing the flare frequency wouldn't make it useless, it would however a group of 5 or so of them from being able to fly through even the toughest AA and living to tell the tale..

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 31 Jul 2006, 21:36

vulture is not supposed to scout things out; its supposed to cover large radar/sonar coverage for front lines/rest of base so you know what exactly is going on. The flares are merely there so that ti can survive a few close brushes with incoming AA units.

it should not be an effective scout.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 31 Jul 2006, 21:50

Dragon45 wrote:vulture is not supposed to scout things out; its supposed to cover large radar/sonar coverage for front lines/rest of base so you know what exactly is going on. The flares are merely there so that ti can survive a few close brushes with incoming AA units.

it should not be an effective scout.

And how exactly do you propose it be made unable to be an effective scout without making it useless at goal A?

Never mind that I think your intended role is unlikely to actually be useful in-game, since radars are so cheap.

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:29

Restarting my todo list today

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:34

Reducing flare frequency will nto make it useless just less effective, which it obviously needs to be. just do a few tests for godsakes! how can anyone say its balanced right now? lol

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:36

Here, Caydr, just bump it up to a conservative 1.4 second reload time and we will see how it works then.

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:38

Egarwaen wrote:
Dragon45 wrote:vulture is not supposed to scout things out; its supposed to cover large radar/sonar coverage for front lines/rest of base so you know what exactly is going on. The flares are merely there so that ti can survive a few close brushes with incoming AA units.

it should not be an effective scout.
And how exactly do you propose it be made unable to be an effective scout without making it useless at goal A?

Never mind that I think your intended role is unlikely to actually be useful in-game, since radars are so cheap.

Uhhh hello? The Vulture's Big Feature (C) is its MOBILITY. Meaning that if someone takes out radar at front lines ,you can still fly the buggers in and give you emerngency radar coverage. Or if you think there's any enemy assault on other side of large map, you can fly it in and see what all is going on over a large area.

It should NOT, i repeat, SHOULD NOT be able to completely fuxxor all AA in a gourp of three and get LOS on everything inside an opponent's base.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:42

Dragon45 wrote:
Egarwaen wrote:
Dragon45 wrote:vulture is not supposed to scout things out; its supposed to cover large radar/sonar coverage for front lines/rest of base so you know what exactly is going on. The flares are merely there so that ti can survive a few close brushes with incoming AA units.

it should not be an effective scout.
And how exactly do you propose it be made unable to be an effective scout without making it useless at goal A?

Never mind that I think your intended role is unlikely to actually be useful in-game, since radars are so cheap.

Uhhh hello? The Vulture's Big Feature (C) is its MOBILITY. Meaning that if someone takes out radar at front lines ,you can still fly the buggers in and give you emerngency radar coverage. Or if you think there's any enemy assault on other side of large map, you can fly it in and see what all is going on over a large area.

It should NOT, i repeat, SHOULD NOT be able to completely fuxxor all AA in a gourp of three and get LOS on everything inside an opponent's base.

QFT

Its also awesome for hilly maps when hills can block your radar coverage.

FireCrack · Post by **FireCrack** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:46

^yeah, somthing like that would be swelll I'd say..... mabye 1.3

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 31 Jul 2006, 22:52

Now, ummm... a lot of people are calling for Ground Decals, and I really must agree. It's cosmetic, but it's cool!

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 31 Jul 2006, 23:08

Dragon45 wrote:Uhhh hello? The Vulture's Big Feature (C) is its MOBILITY. Meaning that if someone takes out radar at front lines ,you can still fly the buggers in and give you emerngency radar coverage. Or if you think there's any enemy assault on other side of large map, you can fly it in and see what all is going on over a large area.

Uh... You are aware that "fly it in and see what all is going on over a large area" is a scout plane function? That's exactly what you just said a Vulture should be unable to do.

It should NOT, i repeat, SHOULD NOT be able to completely fuxxor all AA in a gourp of three and get LOS on everything inside an opponent's base.

Nope, and no-one's said it should. Why does that have anything to do with it being or not being a scout plane?

Buggi · Post by **Buggi** » 31 Jul 2006, 23:23

C-man, just wanted to thank you for all the work you've put into AA. Having made a small add-on mod of my own to AA I can honestly see just how much work it takes to manage so many assets.

So thanks!

Scikar · Post by **Scikar** » 01 Aug 2006, 00:22

Dragon45 wrote:vulture is not supposed to scout things out; its supposed to cover large radar/sonar coverage for front lines/rest of base so you know what exactly is going on. The flares are merely there so that ti can survive a few close brushes with incoming AA units.

it should not be an effective scout.

I'm pretty sure the airborne radar/sonar planes have less radar range than the mobile radar vehicles. If you're going to have the radar planes shot down by LRMs then there will be no use for them, as the vehicles will survive much better.

Again, I have yet to see these fabled 5 radar planes successfuly scout out a base which has flak for defence. If you're still depending on T1 AA to defend your base from air at T2 then I can't see how you're going to survive a brawler swarm. Radar planes getting into your base is a fault in your defences, not in radar plane flares.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 01 Aug 2006, 01:04

Youve played this mod scikar right?

Dragon45 · Post by **Dragon45** » 01 Aug 2006, 01:08

Pradon me; when i mentioned the "chcking out for large enemy force on other side of map", the "see" i meant was "radar-see", not "LOS-see" like i mnetioend before.

Although a peeper has good LOS and is cheap, the Vulture's radar is its primary asset.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 01 Aug 2006, 01:27

Dragon45 wrote:Pradon me; when i mentioned the "chcking out for large enemy force on other side of map", the "see" i meant was "radar-see", not "LOS-see" like i mnetioend before.

Although a peeper has good LOS and is cheap, the Vulture's radar is its primary asset.

Except that three Peepers can be churned out from an L1 factory for less than the cost of a Vulture and provide better "checking" that can't be fooled by anything less than a cloaked assault force. (As opposed to the Vulture, which gets defeated by jammers or stealth) And even then they'll probably decloak one of the attackers when they fly over and will give you LoS to boot.

So again, why shouldn't the Vulture effectively be a T2 scout plane (Peeper but tougher, with bigger radar and sonar) and how do you propose changing it to make it so it cannot be used as a scout plane?

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 01 Aug 2006, 01:46

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BWFLGWSV

Chck out this replay if you dont believe the "Fabled" 5 plane ooba scouting manauvre

check out the flak test, then the 2 flak + 2 bomber turrets + lr tower
then the 10 anti swarm test.

LordMatt · Post by **LordMatt** » 01 Aug 2006, 01:48

I probably build a few radar planes in any game that I have adv air. I'm sure I would build them far less often if they stopped being effective scouts. What's wrong with a lvl 2 scout/radar plane?

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11