New map format.

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 28 Jul 2006, 10:43

Yhe, but how long untill it gets ditched?? I mean... this is what Neuralize is proposing... and he's got quite alot of support (though the poll is in favor of keeping at teh mo just...)

How long befor some decides that theres enough new maps to get rid of the old format?

aGorm

Das Bruce · Post by **Das Bruce** » 28 Jul 2006, 14:37

No reason to remove functionality, some things can't be done the new way without a lot of pain.

The day they remove it is the day I post the exact same code as a patch.

Post by **hollowsoul** » 28 Jul 2006, 14:44

Basicly properbly gonna be dev's decision.
At some stage they will remove the old map format, once it becomes to much hassle to maintain the extra code till then though.

Its pure spectative atm,
but still nice to port maps over to map format when its ready.
Due to smaller filesize, but its up to mappers on whether till feel like doing the extra work to port map over

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 28 Jul 2006, 15:55

Well, yes, the new map format looks nice with most maps, and reduces filesize, but ATM it drastically reduces framerate. My poor FX 5200 drops down to 12 FPS when trying to render an empty map. Which makes those maps sorta unplayable for me.

AF · Post by AF » 28 Jul 2006, 16:45

My fx 5200 ultra averages 60->120 fps on the new map format and 20-40 fps on the old. Check your nvidia graohics settings lindir, aswell as your driver version (no 91.33, I use 85.xx).

Post by **jcnossen** » 28 Jul 2006, 17:07

There will be various speedups still though, one for the absolute most crappy cards, and the highend cards will probably also run a bit faster (If you don't enable the bumpmapping stuff), so don't judge too soon :)
It's also more dependent on the complexity of the map texturing itself.

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 28 Jul 2006, 18:17

AF wrote:My fx 5200 ultra averages 60->120 fps on the new map format and 20-40 fps on the old. Check your nvidia graohics settings lindir, aswell as your driver version (no 91.33, I use 85.xx).

Is that with full terrain settings?

I'll still poke around with drivers...

edit: Where can I get this 85.xx?

The nvidia page only has 91.3x and 84.xx and below

AF · Post by AF » 28 Jul 2006, 18:32

Google for it as usual.

Cyberwal · Post by **Cyberwal** » 28 Jul 2006, 18:44

I'd say it's a bad idea to phase out the old format, or at least if it's done too quickly.

There are many really good, beautiful and fun maps for the old one, it should only be phased out (if at all) when there is at least a comparable number of maps (ports or new ones) for the new format.

Just my two cents

hrmph · Post by **hrmph** » 28 Jul 2006, 19:02

aGorm, I think we are on the same page.. I'm also confused as to how one would make a map with terragen in the new format. Maybe theres some kind of solution...

Lindir The Green · Post by **Lindir The Green** » 28 Jul 2006, 19:32

Still can't find 85.xx, but 84.something didn't help at all.

Reverting back to 91.33...

Cyberwal · Post by **Cyberwal** » 28 Jul 2006, 19:58

Lindir The Green wrote:Still can't find 85.xx, but 84.something didn't help at all.

Reverting back to 91.33...

http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?id=10

AF · Post by AF » 28 Jul 2006, 20:50

Lindir, dotn switch abck and forth like that.

If you install an odler driver you ahev to completely remove the enwer one or you'll be worse fof than you would be with either driver. My computer got horrible glitches when runnign 85.xx after installing voer 91.33. Which where fixed when i totally removed all nvidia drivers and reinstalled, ym framerate went upa dn the glitches dissapeared.

Also a total driver removal isnt a ssimple as uninstalling nvidia drivers in cotnrol panel, because there are still registry entries and drivers on the hardrive which will affet the next nvidia driver install.

Look again at guru3d.com for nvidia driver removal instructions.

Neuralize · Post by **Neuralize** » 28 Jul 2006, 22:11

Hmm. I remember there being some sort of 3d driver remover of some sort..

Anyway, back on topic..

I would also like to add that I feel having maps only in one format will also bring a more unified and polished look to spring. Right now people are still capable of making pretty botched maps, and I recognize that they would still be able to, however I feel that the the ability to revise a map is very easy.

Maps will start to be like mods, able to be modified and hacked and released with little hassel, this could lead to some sort of collaborative mapping where a group could circulate a map and require everyone to make a modification of some sort to it.

And if any of the developers could answer this, I wanted to know what optimizations and benefits could come out of this code-wise? Would it make the code cleaner, or is the new map format a little hackish?

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 28 Jul 2006, 22:15

Are you insane? Phasing out all old maps would get rid of some really really good ones! DO you honestly think I want to re-create 34 maps in the new format!???

Horrible idea.

Edit:

After reading all the posts... Dude, seriously, fuck that. I spent over 60 hours making Whakamatunga Riri in which a VERY LARGE PART is completely HAND DRAWN! I spent 16 hours straight on that one.

Not to mention the small little fact that I have never put in less than 20 hours on a map in the old format due to attention to detail. ok lets do some math, 34 * 20(assuming that I only spent 20 hours on each map) = 680

THere are 168 hours in 1 week, so 680 / 168 = 4.047

That means over 4 weeks Straight of mapping, no eating, no sleeping, no banging my GF. Screw that. I made whakamatunga riri in the new format in a little over 2 hours. It does not look as good as the original, but thanks to the lighting in the new renderer, it's much closer.

Neuralize, as a non-real-mapper I don't think that you have any authority whatsoever to even begin to suggest that we ditch the old format. There is nothing wrong with it! Those maps are still fun to play!

Graaah! THe old format will be ditched, but only over my cold, shriveled, lifeless corpse.

iamacup · Post by **iamacup** » 28 Jul 2006, 22:49

FU's demise doesent mean bigger and better sites wont pick up the slack

i offer 3 tb inferno offers 1 and i have it programed up..... maybe in a years time we will run out of bandwidth

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 29 Jul 2006, 00:03

I did not bother to post but Forboding Angel sums it up quite nice. The new map format is not a replacement for the current format.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 29 Jul 2006, 00:41

Tim Blokdijk wrote:I did not bother to post but Forboding Angel sums it up quite nice. The new map format is not a replacement for the current format.

^ What I said, in an authoritative nutshell

AF · Post by AF » 29 Jul 2006, 00:42

Remember, there are things the old map format can dot hat the old one cant.

For example you can have a 17x17 map in the old format but not in the new format, it has to be at the very least an even number. You cant have rectangular maps in the new format, and you dont have 100% control over what it looks like. You cant render shadows into a map in the new format you have to make the engine render them. Also because its texture splattering you cant hand draw your maps, you can only hand draw the textures....

Cheesecan · Post by **Cheesecan** » 29 Jul 2006, 02:07

I wouldn't really mind to be honest. Those who want to keep their old maps around for sentimental reasons should have that option though, at least until the devs decide to drop support for the old format. In my mind the new format is a replacement. It's less hassle and more play.

Spring RTS Engine

New map format.

Phase out all old maps and format?