Absolute Annihilation 2.11

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:27

Min3mat wrote:due to anti's effective they are less of a 'anti-porc' as a good porcer will have one of these fairly cheap buggers up in no time. in fact they are probably better for the porcer, he has little MC so the enemy has a massive area to cover from nuke attacks, let alone nukes on offensive swarms =)

Enough phoenixes is a free kill on any structure. If you have lotsa nukes and enough phoenixes you can kill the anti and then proceed to kill everything else with nukes. You can't outporc that strategy, it's one of the few in the game that this is true of.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:42

SwiftSpear wrote:Enough phoenixes is a free kill on any structure. If you have lotsa nukes and enough phoenixes you can kill the anti and then proceed to kill everything else with nukes. You can't outporc that strategy, it's one of the few in the game that this is true of.

This is assuming that the porcer only has one anti...

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Jul 2006, 17:10

and that its not at the back of his base protected by all the porcers love, fighters, LRMT, antiswarm and antibomber turrets (meaning you can't even scout it let alone kill it!)

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jul 2006, 18:35

Min3mat wrote:and that its not at the back of his base protected by all the porcers love, fighters, LRMT, antiswarm and antibomber turrets (meaning you can't even scout it let alone kill it!)

You underestimate the power of spies... :D

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 19 Jul 2006, 19:19

Kixxe wrote:
Min3mat wrote:and that its not at the back of his base protected by all the porcers love, fighters, LRMT, antiswarm and antibomber turrets (meaning you can't even scout it let alone kill it!)
You underestimate the power of spies... :D

50 patrolling spiders ftw.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 19 Jul 2006, 19:34

Even *better* players will build one or more mobile antinukes, which can be moved and don't ghost, and thus thwart your enemy's expensive nukes when he blows his wad after a bombing raid that he *thinks* killed your anti's.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 19 Jul 2006, 19:39

SeLfkiLL wrote:Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.

I quote myself from the Official AA forum.

Drone_Fragger wrote:You dopn't want to build the counter? Don't complain.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 19 Jul 2006, 19:45

Drone_Fragger wrote:
SeLfkiLL wrote:Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.
I quote myself from the Official AA forum.

Drone_Fragger wrote:You dopn't want to build the counter? Don't complain.

Ohhh, damn thats sounds fun to blow someones base up, someone should tell the dumbass, WTF WERE YOU DOING WHILE HE WAS BUILDING 10 DAMN NUKES! And EVERYONE knows that you need at least 5 anti-nukes!

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:01

Or like, 2? or make your anti completly bomber proff by placing it in the far back with shitload of fighters, antiswarm and Flakkers? Bombers are a high treath anyway.

Or like scout more so you know what he's doing? I mean, anyone can get owned by anything who is unexpected. Aha, he's building Nukes/bomber swarm/hover & amfibs/ rushing level 3/ BB's/ a vulcan ect. Better build more counters.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:06

also an anti only protects a certain radius around it.

Erom · Post by **Erom** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:17

Don't the mobile anti cost the same as the building version? I never really understood why you would make the fixed version when you can set the mobile version to walk in a small circle, making it harder to pin down it's location.

BigSteve · Post by **BigSteve** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:17

SwiftSpear wrote:
Min3mat wrote:due to anti's effective they are less of a 'anti-porc' as a good porcer will have one of these fairly cheap buggers up in no time. in fact they are probably better for the porcer, he has little MC so the enemy has a massive area to cover from nuke attacks, let alone nukes on offensive swarms =)
Enough phoenixes is a free kill on any structure. If you have lotsa nukes and enough phoenixes you can kill the anti and then proceed to kill everything else with nukes. You can't outporc that strategy, it's one of the few in the game that this is true of.

Wowsers !I didnt know pheonixes and the l2 airplant were free!
Sweet! I am soooo exploiting this!

^^

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:21

The mobile takes up a significant amount of time in your T2 lab. Thus people just build a fixed Anti.

But later on, when you can afford to lose some T2 buildtime, crank out one or more Scarabs.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:37

An anti-nuke protects a radius of 2000 (if the tag means what I think), a core nuke will damage a radius of 1920. Strike just outside of antinuke range (yes I know that's not easy to estimate) and the hole should be big enough to send an attack force through to take the anti down and proceed with the nuke bombing (or don't and let the ground units rip the base apart without further nukes). Of course if so desired you can use tacnukes for that instead, probably more effective.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:41

Nukes damage quickily weaken... the damage at the fartest point is FAR away from the ground zero. The real kill zone of a nuke is as big as the damage circle is no bigger then the range circle HLT. Hell, could be even smaller! just have your anti ('s) cover 1 screen beyond your frontline defences, and it should be fine.

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 19 Jul 2006, 20:56

Snipawolf wrote:
Drone_Fragger wrote:
SeLfkiLL wrote:Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.
I quote myself from the Official AA forum.

Drone_Fragger wrote:You dopn't want to build the counter? Don't complain.
Ohhh, damn thats sounds fun to blow someones base up, someone should tell the dumbass, WTF WERE YOU DOING WHILE HE WAS BUILDING 10 DAMN NUKES! And EVERYONE knows that you need at least 5 anti-nukes!

Yes you do. If he had the money to buy X nukes and the money to buy shitloads of phoenixs, he deserved to win.

Snipawolf · Post by **Snipawolf** » 19 Jul 2006, 21:08

Yeah, pheonixes cost a good bit...

Anyhow I tried building like 10 nukes at one time and it was 20k energy drain, to sufficiently hold that...

THEN build the forces that made a raid and destroyed his Anti nukes...

Sheesh, this guy was slow, or didn't come out of his base....

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 19 Jul 2006, 22:04

Kixxe wrote:Nukes damage quickily weaken... the damage at the fartest point is FAR away from the ground zero. The real kill zone of a nuke is as big as the damage circle is no bigger then the range circle HLT. Hell, could be even smaller! just have your anti ('s) cover 1 screen beyond your frontline defences, and it should be fine.

Weaker defenses are still a great opportunity. Edgeeffectiveness is 0.3, at the outmost point it's still 2500 or 3000 damage (arm, core). That's enough to destroy an HLT (and might even destroy annis) if my calculations aren't off. Perhaps 0.3 means less than that but if it doesn't that should wipe out most of his defenses.

I don't know your definition of "screen", in OTA it was 512 IIRC but since Spring allows a lot of zooming what is a screen to you?

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jul 2006, 22:44

KDR_11k wrote: Weaker defenses are still a great opportunity. Edgeeffectiveness is 0.3, at the outmost point it's still 2500 or 3000 damage (arm, core). That's enough to destroy an HLT (and might even destroy annis) if my calculations aren't off. Perhaps 0.3 means less than that but if it doesn't that should wipe out most of his defenses.

I don't know your definition of "screen", in OTA it was 512 IIRC but since Spring allows a lot of zooming what is a screen to you?

Tell you what? why don't you try this hypothesis ingame... Then we'll talk.

I think a screen... a hell, if your frontline is made up of HLT's, OUTSIDE their range should do it i think.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 20 Jul 2006, 02:45

Nukes/Anti-nuke balance is pretty much alright, though I believe they should logically deal less damage to flying planes due to altitude. Not that it will make a difference with the current plane HP, but for future reference...

Drone, this is one of those rare occasions that you were spot on.

My list of unit and mechanic proposals is now three pages long, and I'm still waiting on releasing it. Many the engine can't support. Just, you know, warning Caydr here.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11