Absolute Annihilation 2.11

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 19 Jul 2006, 07:04

Hm, having the Lv2 AA kbot look like three or four jethros duck-taped together would definitely own...

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 19 Jul 2006, 08:49

i would also fix pelicans. They are sooo usless with tiny laser and weak aa rocket and no health. I mean who wants to do amhib assult with tiny units where 2 llts can stop 20 of them?

Increase cost for 100% or even more and make some bufs to pelican. Let it be used plz.

TBH, the only usefull amhib units i have seen in action are shivas and marauders. Others are plain crap - why not remove them? (or make 1 of them AA amphib-very needed deep in enemy territory where fighters die)

Maybe also consider removing stupid damage that torpedos and Deepcharge does to amphibs too, they get owned by every other unit after all.

my 25 cents.

Mr.Frumious · Post by **Mr.Frumious** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:05

ginekolog wrote:i would also fix pelicans. They are sooo usless with tiny laser and weak aa rocket and no health. I mean who wants to do amhib assult with tiny units where 2 llts can stop 20 of them?

Increase cost for 100% or even more and make some bufs to pelican. Let it be used plz.

TBH, the only usefull amhib units i have seen in action are shivas and marauders. Others are plain crap - why not remove them? (or make 1 of them AA amphib-very needed deep in enemy territory where fighters die)

Maybe also consider removing stupid damage that torpedos and Deepcharge does to amphibs too, they get owned by every other unit after all.

my 25 cents.

Pelicans gave me a bad day recently on Small Supreme. The usage was as follows:

First, send a large mass of them rushing through a minimally-defended coast, similar to a Zipper rush. A substantial number of them break through and start doing damage to infrastructure.

Second, get into my fighter patrol route and proceed to start blowing my whole fighter fleet to smithereens.

Third, make peace with god as the cavalry (my Comm, working nearby) arrives and eliminates this nuisance.

The things are partially redundant with hovers, but still can give you a very bad day if used cleverly. Being able to make mincemeat of the fighter patrols is quite handy.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Jul 2006, 09:41

i would also fix pelicans. They are sooo usless with tiny laser and weak aa rocket and no health. I mean who wants to do amhib assult with tiny units where 2 llts can stop 20 of them?

i think what was said a while ago holds,
if you have a problem provide
1: a replay. so we can laugh at your foolishness
2: facts and figures. so we can laugh at your ineptity with numbers
if you manage to do one or either and provide a plausable case THEN the pros of the forum will start to listen to you. then and ONLY then.

quoted for freaking emphasis bihatch.

SeLfkiLL · Post by **SeLfkiLL** » 19 Jul 2006, 12:48

Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.

Machiosabre · Post by **Machiosabre** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:06

well without even talking about antinuke you have to take into consideration the time and resources that go into building a silo and nukes, were you attacking at all with your nice economy?
sounds like the other guy just had a good attack plan, and it worked.

Ishach · Post by **Ishach** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:06

SeLfkiLL wrote:Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.

it takes no strategy does it?

What about managing their resources efficiently to let them get a Nuke silo before you can get a much cheaper Anti-nuke up? This means they are commiting less resources to the battle, and less resources to defence yet still they held out and beat you to an expensive building like the nuke silo, and waited till a missle was built.

Managing resources and troops? I'd say thats what this game is all about.

SeLfkiLL · Post by **SeLfkiLL** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:20

With the resource income I had, I could of built four silos if I wanted. I was even considering building one just in case, but I didn't because I thought it would be pointless. Thinking back to it, I wish I had; then at least I could of destroyed my enemy's silo when the Anti-Nukes got bombed. But really, why not use that metal and energy wasted on a silo and its nukes for something more interesting and worth both side's time? How about some level 3 kbots? They're just as good as nukes in terms of destructability (if not better) and at the same time it gives the opponent something to actually defend against with actual "real-time strategy." Anti-Nukes just sit there and shoot down incoming nukes, no combat or anything.

Edit:

sounds like the other guy just had a good attack plan, and it worked.

My opponent had tried several attempts to attack me using various ground and air units. He was unsuccessful in each attack. I was almost ready for my own attack, but instead, he built up an army of Pheonixes and despite there being a wall of flaks in the middle of my base and 4 flaks surrounding the anti-nuke off to the side, along with an anti-air defender, he still managed to destroy it and then proceeded to nuke my entire base. He never tried attacking me with any level 3 units.
This is what appears to be what certain people do when they feel threatened. They forget that they are merely playing a game, replacing it with determination to achieve victory at all costs.

Exit69 · Post by **Exit69** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:35

I`ve got one thing to say - porcing isn`t a winning strategy. Nor is the Krog rush. Just what did you do with 90 metal per second?

SeLfkiLL · Post by **SeLfkiLL** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:39

Yes, I did porc, but I also had a large army of units and was building up another army of bulldogs and anti-air flaks. Porcing and building a large army was what I was doing with my 90+ metal per second, not (regretfully) wasting it on nukes.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:40

All it looks like here is you're whining becuase you porced up, whilst the enemy actualy bothred to attack, and won.... there is nothing wrong with nukes/anti nukes, it's your play style...

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:42

If you had put pressure on him, chances are he wouldn't have been able to afford 10 nukes or the hordes of bombers....

SeLfkiLL · Post by **SeLfkiLL** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:49

Cabbage wrote:All it looks like here is you're whining becuase you porced up, whilst the enemy actualy bothred to attack, and won.... there is nothing wrong with nukes/anti nukes, it's your play style...

You're missing the point: I could of nuked him if I wanted to, he had no anti-nukes. Using nukes is not a strategy and this is not the first time someone has used it without trying other methods to attack me. I'm not making any more replies on the subject, all I wanted was just to bring up this critical point to the developer.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 19 Jul 2006, 13:54

it's a war? anything goes? build more antinukes and some planes to incercept that vast bomber army/nuke base.
just imagine you won the game in the end & it'll put your mind at ease

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:00

Please PLEASE do this mod a favor and lower the damage of nukes! There's nothing like setting up a good base with a sufficient resource income and producing a soon-to-be-used army of units just to have it all nuked. It ruins the game and yet it takes absolutely no strategy to fire a nuke at some arbitrary location. And don't tell me to just build an Anti-Nuke. Anti-Nukes take a while to develop and yet their only purpose is to fend off incoming nukes. Not only are they a waste of resources in contrast to every other unit, but they are also sitting ducks. I was in a game a few days ago in which I had a nice base, receiving up 90+ metal per second. I had setup two Anti-Nukes, one primary and the other a backup. However, it wasn't enough; the enemy sent in a horde of bomber planes and destroyed both Anti-Nukes, then proceeded to use all 10 of his nukes to destroy my entire base. Where is the fun in that? Where is the strategy? No actual combat, just a destroyed base and a waste of one hour of my time. I hope the developer(s) please take this into consideration for the next update.

i think what was said a while ago holds,
if you have a problem provide
1: a replay. so we can laugh at your foolishness
2: facts and figures. so we can laugh at your ineptity with numbers
if you manage to do one or either and provide a plausable case THEN the pros of the forum will start to listen to you. then and ONLY then.

what do i have to do? use big red letters?

Nuke
M: 7,187
E: 77,536
BT: 181,243

AntiNuke
M: 1,508
E: 64,321
BT: 96,450

i'm using COREs Nuke/Anti as its the better nuek

I think that the results are pretty conclusive. Let alone that antinuke missiles are cheaper than nuke missiles and (IIRC) recharge faster

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:03

SeLfkiLL wrote:
You're missing the point: I could of nuked him if I wanted to, he had no anti-nukes. Using nukes is not a strategy and this is not the first time someone has used it without trying other methods to attack me. I'm not making any more replies on the subject, all I wanted was just to bring up this critical point to the developer.

What if you acully would have scouted, found his nukes? Would't you have built more anti's and his whole nuke investment would be completly useless? Won't nuke buildings also EXPLODE like nukes to? 10 bombers to kill to turn nuke building for the enemy for a huge explosion for you! :D

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:11

Also, flak doesn't work well against bombers unless it's miles in front of the stuff you're defending.

http://www.sirlin.net/archive/playing-to-win-part-1/

You might find this interesting.

EDIT: Kixxe, go and read up on nuclear weapons, but before that - run from Smoth and Fang.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 19 Jul 2006, 14:43

Nukes are underpowered in AA... You need to dominate your opponent economically and hope they don't blast you to hell before you can get your pheonix swarm and nuke plants up. Nukes are one of 2 antiporc, so if you're a porcer learn to deal with them.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 19 Jul 2006, 15:12

due to anti's effective they are less of a 'anti-porc' as a good porcer will have one of these fairly cheap buggers up in no time. in fact they are probably better for the porcer, he has little MC so the enemy has a massive area to cover from nuke attacks, let alone nukes on offensive swarms =)

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 19 Jul 2006, 16:26

Yes but since the porcer doesn't put you under pressure you could afford both the nukes and the means to take down his antinukes (LRPCs if need to be). Hell this guy let his opponent build a large swarm of strategic bombers.

Complaints against nukes fall under the same class as complaints about superweapons in other games: Should've crushed him while he was building those.

For the record, ammunition costs:

NUCLEAR_MISSILE (Arm's nuke): 125000E, 1000M, 120secs
CRBLMSSL (Core's nuke): 187500E, 1500M, 180secs (50% more blast radius (means 125% more covered area) and 33% more damage)

AMD_ROCKET (Arm's antinuke): 7500E, 150M, 90secs
FMD_ROCKET (Core's antinuke): 7500E, 150M, 90secs
The mobile antinukes cost the same as their building counterparts.

That's a big difference and a lot of ressources that could go into an army instead.

Nukes are a part of the strategy. If your opponent didn't build air defense, you use bombers. If he didn't build nuke defense, you use nukes.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11