Hidden vs Clout (my mod idea)

Hidden vs Clout (my mod idea)

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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unpossible
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Hidden vs Clout (my mod idea)

Post by unpossible »

Hidden vs. Clout

I have an idea for a new mod. The idea is to have two side that play completely differently and to change the resource system a bit differently.

Resources:
Only metal is used to build units and structures (might use Geos a metal hotpots too to give them purpose/value)

Energy is used to 'power' each races special ability.
Only energy structures (and the com) will produce energy.
Energy structures will be expensive. this will limit the number of units you can use as without their special abilities they'll be much less effective.

Two sides:


the hidden & the clout (for wont of better names at the moment)

The Hidden:
all (?) units cloak at no cost when stationary, including structures. when moving & firing weapons it'll cost them more than the units create so units shouldn't have perma invisibility.
I'm thinking about stealthing too, but something tells me that each unit will have different requirements (probablly only a few stealthed ones)

units in general are weak and quite fast, i'm invisaging hovercrafty types for these.
I imagine the range of a zeus as the typical range of a Hidden attack units - ie mostly short range.
decloak radii are genrally about 1/2 weapons range for most offensive units - much larger than we see in something like AA, though this is decided on a unit by unit basis


specific unit ideas:

Ground stuff (all terrain hovers)

TECH 1

L1 scout - small decloak radius, small explosion/bomb on death, not enough to do any serious damage.

L1 assault - lightning weapon, shorter than zeus range

L1 lobber - ballistic plasma, able to reach over small barriers such as wrecks. short range like the L1 assault, and not super high traj either!

L1 Anti-air

TECH 2

L2 assault - more powerful lightning - longer range but only slightly

L2 artillery - generic artillery - still not very long range & low hp

L2 EMP tank - gauss traj with small AOE emp damage - hp like an assault unit.

L2 AA- better AA

L2 Thief/Robber - using AF's new turn off the nano spray thingy i envisage a unit that is invisible, runs into the enemies base and starts reclaiming their structures. and stays invisible while it's doing it. and has no nano spray. I have a feeling that this feature doesn't exist at the moment...

Air Stuff

TECH 1
Lightning drone - light combat gunship - probably not good idea to be stealthed - low hp

AA fighter

TECH 2

Lightning gunship - powerful lightning (the damage dealer)

EMP gunship - another EMP weapon (without splash damage?) + multipurpose missle (think slasher but not as WTFPWN against planes)

TECH 3

Marauder Weapons Platform - slow moving platform with repair facility, lighting guns (same as gunship) and missles (miniature krog missles)



The Clout::

all (most) units have shields. units generate some portion of the energy needed to recharge the shields, but they'll recharge faster with additional energy.
Shields will add a substantial amount of hp to units (an extra 100-200% of base hp) with the base hp being aproximately the same as the weaker Hidden units.
Shields mustn't recharge too quickly for obvious reasons but hat balance can be decided later.
Shields will be a smidgen larger than the units themselves. larger units will have big enough shields to protect those immediatly around them.


Units are genrally tougher (taking shields inot consideration) and weapons have a longer range than Hidden.
Specific units:

Ground stuff (all terrain bots)
TECH 1

Armed scout - almost no hp but a shield and a gun

Laser assault drone - lightly armoured with a single laser. small shield

SABOT missile bot - carries a single sabot missle launcher. has a medium impluse factor & wioll chuck about the lightest units

AA missle bot - light AA - maybe no shield for this one

TECH 2

Heavy laser bot - dual lasers - the damage dealer. the bot is quite tall to aid shooting over wreckage - similar to a sumo in shape. can stomp wreckages.

Heavy missle bot - fires a few low arced missles with small AOE. AOE forces Hidden in the blast radiius to decloak, as well as having a high impulsefactor

Portable Shield - just what it says on the tin (quite weak but is a boon to the force around it)

Revealer - big gun firing a very large AOE very low damage weapon. The AOE damage won't kill anything, even the weakest units, but will decloak any Hidden in the 'blast'. V. slow reload

TECH 3
Titan - big weapons platform, large shield. 2 big laser turrets and a krog style missle launcher.

Air Stuff

TECH 1
Scout plane - unarmed scout plane

Fighter - AA

Sabot missle bomber - similar to an AA Liche in attacking style - big missle each flyover

TECH 2

Laser gunship - mini crow





These are ideas...the list will get longer. if anyone's got anything to add then do. WTFUCANTHAVEACLOAKINGRACE comments aren't needed
:wink:
Last edited by unpossible on 18 Jul 2006, 14:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Comp1337
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Post by Comp1337 »

Don't forget that hidden should have some sort of decloaker. it wont always be hidden v Clout.
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unpossible
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Post by unpossible »

Comp1337 wrote:Don't forget that hidden should have some sort of decloaker. it wont always be hidden v Clout.
the emp weapons will fill that role to some extent with their splash damage. aircraft flying about should decloak things too due to the larger decloak radii than we're used to.
j5mello
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Joined: 26 Aug 2005, 05:40

Post by j5mello »

one thing if ur gonna have factories that are cloaked know this. even though the factory itself is cloaked when it starts building a unit the wire frame will show up on radar and los.

At one point Fang was gonna have the URC in E&E be an all cloak team but the whole factory thing kinda spoiled it.

What we need are aoe cloaking a la the shields.
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unpossible
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Post by unpossible »

j5mello wrote:one thing if ur gonna have factories that are cloaked know this. even though the factory itself is cloaked when it starts building a unit the wire frame will show up on radar and los.

At one point Fang was gonna have the URC in E&E be an all cloak team but the whole factory thing kinda spoiled it.

What we need are aoe cloaking a la the shields.
wire frame of the unit being built?

...so there is a way for a unit to remain cloaked whilst building? This is good :).

perhaps giving each factory a jammer will be enough to sort out the radar blip...that may be enough.
j5mello
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Post by j5mello »

no i mean that when the factory is making a unit, that units wireframe (as well as the nano spray, though that won't be a problem next patch) shows up and gives away the its position.

but yes the factory itself will remained cloaked.
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Soulless1
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Post by Soulless1 »

tbh it seems fair enough for the wireframes to still show up, just stop building if there's a danger of being found ;)


But this idea sounds very cool indeed, I shall definately keep my eye on the mod :-)
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

I don't care untill I see screenshots.
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unpossible
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Post by unpossible »

smoth wrote:I don't care untill I see screenshots.
:P. if you think i'm creating models from scratch for a first bash then you're sorely mistaken. i'd rather see if it works as a concept before i go all out and model it.

edit: statement retracted :oops:
Last edited by unpossible on 19 Jul 2006, 09:40, edited 1 time in total.
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1v0ry_k1ng
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Post by 1v0ry_k1ng »

I think it currently sounds pretty suck.. I would guess the game would go somthing like;

stage 1; early game, clout makes a tight base and expands slowly with defences and units in every direction, while hidded's units proble and try and waste the eco sneakily. there will be no straight fights at this point. either a) hidden cripples clout through sneaking and micro or b) clout survives and manages to amass a horde

stage 2: if b, clout continues to fend off hiddens probes and small attacks with its vastly superior units, and finds the enemy base/resource area.

stage 3: clout piles in, trashing the hidden bases as they are found, whilst hidden lacks the stopping power to really worry the ownage clout units or defences

It just dosnt strike as much fun.. like fighting the GLA stealth general in zero hour.. get listening post and its laughably easy.. go without and you get raped. fun = 0.

to make it fun hidden would have to also have to have conventional units... like both have a normal l1 (equivalent) then l2, clout have ultra heavy and hidden have cloaked boys, meaning you select a tactic.

just my oppinion mind, im sure it'l still be cool/diffrent
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unpossible
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Post by unpossible »

i agree it's going to be pretty tricky to get it playing well, if at all...
1v0ry_k1ng wrote:
to make it fun hidden would have to also have to have conventional units... like both have a normal l1 (equivalent) then l2, clout have ultra heavy and hidden have cloaked boys, meaning you select a tactic.

just my oppinion mind, im sure it'l still be cool/diffrent
only trouble with that is it's EE with new weapons :(

When it comes testing time i'm sure i'll find that hidden can't have stealth, or stealth should be used sparingly/on special units only. decloak radii will play an important part, and i don't think that Hidden will be able to see (radar & LOS) as far as clout.

i'm hoping that by changing the resource system a bit it might even out the sides - energy structures will be expensive, so amassing huge armies might not be so fast/easy (stealth & sheilds will be the main energy drain, along with weapons). emphasis on making what you've got count.

thanks for the feedback :wink:
dogthinker
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Joined: 10 Jul 2006, 09:28

Post by dogthinker »

Hidden should be able to see FURTHER than Clout, not the other way around. Remember your intention is knowledge vs firepower. Clout should be playing almost blind by comparision, but has it's shields/firepower to make up for it.
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

unpossible wrote: :P. if you think i'm creating models from scratch for a first bash then you're sorely mistaken. i'd rather see if it works as a concept before i go all out and model it.
There are tons of mod which NEVER GET FINISHED.

It is relevant because concept = invalid untill you test to see if you can execute it. If that is not possible then you are waisting our time asking about a concept. Honest that is why you do not make a public anouncement until you at least test a few things.

I am not trying to be unreasonable I am just saying that you need to at least try and get a few things done. Then once things are accomplish then we can offer feedback. However, if you cannot get them done then we offered feedback on vapor. There are tons of people who have ideas or concepts and many of them will spend pages prattling on and people get all excited. Then it dissapears.

I am being realistic. Once you get further along I will definetly help. unitl you have something in game NONE OF US will know how it plays out.
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unpossible
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Post by unpossible »

i agree. before i started i saw the modelling as a huge 'i'll do it if i have to' kind of thing, but now i've had a bash & learned the basics i feel a bit more ready to give it a proper go. i'll try to get a few more models done and have a go at UV'ing them (expect block colours for the time being :oops: ).

as far as hidden sight distance...furtyer might make them too powerful. especially if there isn't a VAST difference in firepower betwen the two sides
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smoth
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Post by smoth »

Large sight may cause lag fyi.

About uv maps... in all honesty wings does have a good uvmapping interface...

Also, as far as the rest you know we are here to answer questions.
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