Re: Changes to moderation & lobbyserver (split)

[sectoid123]

Split due to length (Silentwings).

the rules will be interpreted by people who never player on these hosts

This is wrong - the rules will need to be interpreted jointly by Springs moderators, autohost owners and autohost admins. There are many players amongst this group of people; in fact most are regular players, almost all play at least irregularly, and the remaining few are developers.

Here are current Spring moderators according to forum: memberlist.php?mode=team

From these people, only few can be seen sometimes in a lobby game. I have personally only seen these people in an autohost, but I have not seen them actually be in a game without being a spectator. Here are public stats hosted on this very site which illustrate this issue:

For reference, here are my play statistics http://replays.springrts.com/player/991436/
- last played 2017-09-03 23:41
- few games a day regularly

Abma http://replays.springrts.com/player/30072/
- last played 2016-07-10 16:31
- spectates about 5 games per month, does not play

Silentwings http://replays.springrts.com/player/67292/
- last played 2017-03-21 21:45
- spectates a bit more than Abma per month, does not play
- only in last few days started spectating a lot more games

Nixtux http://replays.springrts.com/player/92029/
- last played 2017-06-02 03:18
- spectates games almost daily, does not play

I have had a hard time trying to get a hold of the lobby server owner to get a more reliable statement on the teams activity, sadly after trying to get a name or contact info on such a person from one of the lobby moderators (only Abma responded, rest didn't respond in lobby). I got put on his ignore list and received hostile attitude despite being polite and asking nothing illegal of him. I think it speaks volume of a persons integrity when asked about who I can file a complaint about him meets me with ignore list. This only further illustrates my point, it's an attempt to moderate a community you barely interact with - and on the off chance you do interact with it it only results in hurt feelings from both sides.

For comparison, here is an an autohost admin from the currently most popular host:

Adolf http://replays.springrts.com/player/982187/
- last played 2017-09-18 23:01
- plays several times per day, rest of the time he spectates
- only banned a single player in all his time

There has been much slander without backing evidence used to push this policy change, I haven't seen a single chat log or replay posted of this admins alleged transgressions. The worst I personally seen him do is swear a lot and one time force FFA without a vote. But that all could be discussed at length in another topic in another time, since this policy is now active.

Now as for the policy itself, it is unclear what is actually allowed for autohost owners to do with their paid autohosts. It is vague in every regard except one, that now select few people can decide who gets the privilege of hosting high player games. People that are not actually participating in these games or interacting with the players in them. I'm sure you can see how this can look from an outside point of view. I will give the people responsible the benefit of the doubt and will not assume that this was done out of malice unless proven otherwise. I understand that this was done as a means to force the hand of autohosts to respect the policy, and is a reasonable enough tool if viewed as just that.

With that out of the way, I have a few questions regarding the policy which I would really appreciate if you took the time to answer in detail:

Can you provide an example of what would qualify an autohost admin to be removed under threat of flag removal?
- Can you describe your ideal autohost admin behavior to prevent such action?

Can autohost owners specify their own set of punishments for their own rules, bans/kicks/mutes?

Are there any autohost rules you'd consider against this policy?

Can autohost owners deny access to their autohost to anyone for any reason or no reason at all under this new policy?
- If not, who decides what is a valid reason?
- Which users should be considered immune to administrative actions from the autohost owners?

Are autohost owners mandated to allow lobby moderators to participate or spectate on their paid autohosts?

What rules or code of conduct must the lobby moderators adhere to?

To who should we address complaints about lobby moderator transgressions?

To the general lobby moderator team: Do you think you're doing a good job of understanding the community?

[Silentwings]

As has been said, Springs moderators are not required to be regular players, and as has been said, for this reason:

"autohost moderation is primarily done by autohost owners and admins - who are mostly regular players, plus a few gamedevs. The purpose of this change is to try and do something in situations where the regular players have found themselves unable to "encourage and maintain an environment in which users are able to play games, free from serious disruption and excessively hateful or obscene behavior". If you regard that as an unreasonable expectation, here we differ in opinion."

@sectoid123: Whilst I'm happy to answer reasonable questions from interested people, your post seems overly aggressive and personal. I don't have time to answer all of your long list of questions, some of which appear to have obvious answers, but here are a few.

Can you provide an example of ... Can you describe ... Can autohost owners ...

Naturally a degree of cooperation, contact and goodwill is expected from people who use Springs infrastructure; I would hope that we have provided a reasonable guide of what is expected from large hosts, and we don't plan to ask for anything more detailed. Host owners should contact us about any unclear issues, and we will contact them if needed.

Are autohost owners mandated to allow lobby moderators to participate or spectate on their paid autohosts?

If requested, yes - as for all hosts that use our infrastructure. (I assume that by 'paid' you mean private webhosting for autohosts; we don't discourage it but Spring can host/provide autohosts for free, on our own servers, if needed.)

What rules or code of conduct must the lobby moderators adhere to? To who should we address complaints about lobby moderator transgressions?

See https://springrts.com/wiki/Terms_of_Service, https://springrts.com/wiki/Licenses_Forking_Mutators, https://springrts.com/wiki/Botflags. Complaints about moderation should go to Springs administrators.

Do you think you're doing a good job of understanding the community?

Yes, I think I have a good picture of what's going on; of course others can speak for themselves. Although I rarely play these days, your claim that I don't interact with players and autohosts is fully garbage. I do think that lobby moderators have more to learn about what works when moderating inside autohosts, and I also think that more could be done on the autohost side to create a welcoming environment. This is to be expected after the change we've made. There is a lot still to be determined, and there are opposing viewpoints on some issues, e.g. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36406.

I haven't seen ... The worst I personally seen ...

It's not yours to call how moderators should react, but if you want what you claim to have seen and not seen to be taken at face value, you'd have to be honest about your own identity - as you know, you were permanently banned from this forum some years ago. Having made an exception of allowing your post and taken the time to answer a few reasonable questions, you remain banned.