SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

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FLOZi
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SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 28 Oct 2013, 00:58

Image

So yeah I've been saying I'd do this forever and just keep procrastinating / evading it.

What it is:
A series of hierarchical templates for Spring Games:
  • A(lmost Minimal) - Basically just empty directories and a working ModInfo.lua, EngineOptions.lua, ModOptions.lua, Gamedata/Resources.lua and base-content gadget handler inclusion.
  • B(are Bones) - A + Gamedata/{ArmorDefs.lua, MoveDefs.lua, SideData.lua} skeletons with links to relevant wiki articles, as well as inclusion of base content unit_script.lua, game_spawn.lua and game_end.lua
  • C(hili UI Framework) - B + Chili (2.1) & associated files to make it work
Most people will want to use B or C, A isn't much use to anyone.

What it isn't:
  • A replacement to SimpleTutorialGame (but perhaps to PTSnoop's EmptyMod, which was in turn based on the original A.sdd)
  • A repository of example units and scripts, none are included whatsoever
  • Worth waiting for
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a1983
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by a1983 » 28 Oct 2013, 11:45

Cool! May be it should be on wiki
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FireStorm_
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FireStorm_ » 28 Oct 2013, 11:54

maybe add to Templates & Examples? (edit: ninja-ed :-) )

Though the noob in me, so to speak, was disappointed there was nothing to see in-game.

I've asked and have been asked for these kind of example-games over the years, and I think they are considered very valuable to someone inspired to make a spring game. (More valuable than any other spring-game file or asset.) If you start with BA for instance (as i once did, because I felt most familiar with it) it could very well be that one doesn't see the forest for the trees, so to speak.

I hope people will realise the abc-games hold no "trees" at all.

And I'm surprised, because I believe some example-game (with units and with useful comments in the files) that I use for my current experiments was made by you.

In any case I think it is a good supplement. :-)
(for me personal especially C.sdd )
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 28 Oct 2013, 12:25

The original A.sdd had a 'cube' unit as at that time it was required for a game to have a unit in order to run, PTSnoop used that version when creating EmptyMod and built onto that for EmptyMod plus Tank and ExampleMod.

I think knorke's SpringTutorialGame may then have sprung from ExampleMod?

At any rate EmptyMod and it's derivatives are used in http://springrts.com/wiki/The_Complete_ ... pring_Game

IMO it would be nice if someone rewrote such a guide using SpringTutorialGame or using B.sdd with additional examples in the pages themselves, such a guide should be broken into appropriate sections rather than being all in one page and covering superfluous stuff e.g. modelling in wings.

As stated though, I don't see this as a replacement to tutorial games but rather a supplement - gajop stated something like 'I used Toolbox as a base [to scenario editor] just because it had a working Chili setup'. ABC is meant as a clean slate foundation to build your game on, not an example of how to do so - yes I acknowledge the latter is perhaps more pressingly needed, but that is the purpose of knorke's STG.

edit: Now on wiki; http://springrts.com/wiki/Gamedev:SpringABC
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Silentwings
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by Silentwings » 28 Oct 2013, 15:18

Awesome job, its actually useful to me as well because I only ever worked on developed mods and never knew exactly what bits were bare bones and what weren't.
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 28 Oct 2013, 16:00

Silentwings wrote:Awesome job, its actually useful to me as well because I only ever worked on developed mods and never knew exactly what bits were bare bones and what weren't.
Well, really all you need to run these days is a valid modinfo.lua, and a cursornormal as springcontent.sdz fills in all the blanks, but I felt it was more useful to at least supply a working LUS environment and mod/engineoptions skeletons. :-)
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PicassoCT
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by PicassoCT » 28 Oct 2013, 20:45

Can we get a Link besides the Download button on the frontpage.

"Make your own Game"
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knorke
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by knorke » 29 Oct 2013, 01:48

Think I commented on that before but could not find old thread.
ABC is meant as a clean slate foundation to build your game on
Kind of like "new project" template in some IDEs or whatever office text editors and some basic stuff is already filled in.
Imo somewhat useful, but only to modders who want to start a new project. Those are likely not completly "new" but have already some experience.
They will probally already know what files are needed/not needed. Or maybe they want to do things in non-standard ways? Either way I see little use to create examples for people who already know what they are doing.
skeletons with links to relevant wiki articles
Think there is the risk of just re-creating info such as http://springrts.com/wiki/Game_structure packed as .sdd folder.

C chili already has a tutorial: http://springrts.com/wiki/Chili
that explains how to copy the files etc. Such mod will also become outdated vs the chili files on github unless you update it all the time..
'I used Toolbox as a base [to scenario editor] just because it had a working Chili setup'
I think problem might be that either:
a) the chili tutorial is maybe lacking, in some way
b) the tutorial was not found
c) too much chili stuff/widgets is altered and thus incompatible with each other
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Forboding Angel
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by Forboding Angel » 29 Oct 2013, 08:49

A thought... Once I get all the evo stuff legoed, you could take all of the models and textures from evo (and scripts I guess) and and have it as an optional download (mutator perhaps?), so that newbies could hit the ground running.

Or you could include the stuff for that matter, but I was assuming that you were wanting it to be a small file or whatever.
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 29 Oct 2013, 09:45

I know you think it is pointless knorke, thanks for letting me know, again.

Yes it would be better off on github with chili as a submodule.
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gajop
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by gajop » 29 Oct 2013, 10:47

FLOZi wrote:Yes it would be better off on github with chili as a submodule.
Can be done. The only restriction is that then the user must use git, and cannot download the automatically generated master.zip as it won't include the chili submodule.
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 29 Oct 2013, 10:53

gajop wrote:
FLOZi wrote:Yes it would be better off on github with chili as a submodule.
Can be done. The only restriction is that then the user must use git, and cannot download the automatically generated master.zip as it won't include the chili submodule.
Ewwwww :(
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Anarchid
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by Anarchid » 29 Oct 2013, 12:18

There are also subtrees. I heard those zip up nicely.
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Google_Frog
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by Google_Frog » 30 Oct 2013, 09:43

'A' will be useful for bug reports.
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gajop
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by gajop » 20 Nov 2013, 23:54

Seems to be missing a GameData/ModRules.lua that returns a table.
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gajop
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by gajop » 21 Nov 2013, 00:28

Also it seems not to load any unitdefs until you specify a side in GameData/SideData.lua. Maybe put a default value there so people don't waste too much time searching for errors?
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 21 Nov 2013, 22:32

gajop wrote:Also it seems not to load any unitdefs until you specify a side in GameData/SideData.lua. Maybe put a default value there so people don't waste too much time searching for errors?
Wasn't aware of that. Whoops wrt modrules.lua, will update when i get a chance.
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gajop
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by gajop » 09 May 2014, 18:38

Any chance you could put this on github?
Would be useful to reference to it: "This is how you do X in Spring".
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FLOZi
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by FLOZi » 09 May 2014, 20:21

Will do, and fix the above issue... at some point. Hopefully soon. ish. :oops:
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Forboding Angel
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Re: SpringABC - Empty / Template Games (Again)

Post by Forboding Angel » 14 May 2014, 11:01

Flozi, you might consider grabbing the generic unit and shell explosions that I've created for evo (the are pretty nicely formatted for the most part) and sticking them in there. It's an excellent place for new modders to start with CEG effects.

The downside is that they are tdfs :-(
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