Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers - Page 3

Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

Moderator: Moderators

8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by 8611z »

http://sourceforge.net/p/spring1944/cod ... icense.txt seems to be correct link to file.
Well if you want then not only fix the link, but also fix the link-text to "license=various" or something. Not sure what else you mean or is to be done.
gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by gajop »

hokomoko wrote:https://springrts.com/wiki/Games
I think there should be a clear template of licensing for each game, so it's obvious how the code is licensed and how the content is.
One can be easily confused into thinking S44 isn't FOSS.
Agreed. Clearer licensing is always a plus, but I'm not sure you can describe games art/code under just one license each. There's usually a number of them involved. Anyhow, see what you can do fix it.
Silentwings wrote:Some players do manually download files (of their own choice), and obviously some games do offer/require their own installers.
This ^ . Manual downloads + installers is not an issue (those games work fine). Please don't bring politics of what "should be" to this.
8611z wrote:Imo the universal lobbies (springlobby, weblobby) should be listed above the one-game-installers etc
Agree with regards to ordering on https://springrts.com/wiki/GamesDownloads . Feel free to change the order but don't delete "one-game-installers".
8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by 8611z »

The issue is larger than switching the order of lobbies and game-installers on https://springrts.com/wiki/GamesDownloads
To make sense at very least https://springrts.com/wiki/Download would need changing too, from point players towards "Universal Lobbies" and not "Games Downloads"

All the texts and guides on downloads/playing are in need of remake and many more pages need slight rewording. For example on maps, it begins with instructions from what site to download and into which directory to copy the files.
Those texts about moving files around are worth a footnote at most, every lobby has automatic mapdownload.
But if this is too touchy politics then players are stuck with instrutions thought up in 2006.
hokomoko
Spring Developer
Posts: 593
Joined: 02 Jun 2014, 00:46

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by hokomoko »

8611z wrote:http://sourceforge.net/p/spring1944/cod ... icense.txt seems to be correct link to file.
Well if you want then not only fix the link, but also fix the link-text to "license=various" or something. Not sure what else you mean or is to be done.
No, https://github.com/spring1944/spring194 ... icense.txt is the correct link, (notice I already updated it in the wiki)
gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by gajop »

Started the 101 wiki cleanup.
A few questions (more to come as I go along):
1) How to add new templates? I created a tempalte for https://springrts.com/wiki/Template:Removed but it's not automagically being added here: https://springrts.com/wiki/Modrules.lua#los (even though I added the "removed" tag) Nvm, figured it out.
2) How to mark changes in default values? Example: ! change default airMipLevel 2->1 & radarMipLevel 3->2
User avatar
Silentwings
Posts: 3720
Joined: 25 Oct 2008, 00:23

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by Silentwings »

I suggest only marking changes in the wiki for the rare cases where is a good reason that someone reading carefully through the changelog wouildn't spot that a change had occured.

Currently, its random whether previous behaviour is mentioned in wiki or not, and there are simply too many changes to record all and maintain removing them after some time lag, etc etc. The assumption has to be that active game devs should use the latest engine and read the changelog, afaics we don't have manpower (or reason) to do otherwise.
User avatar
FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by FLOZi »

Wiki should reflect current engine, previous versions can suck it.

Not so unfeasible, I have updated wiki with every relevant changelog entry since 90.0
gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

structure of wiki

Post by gajop »

Roger :)
I'm thinking that eventually we could have multiple wiki versions for each old engine version (this is something a number of projects I use do), and basically only allow editing for the stable/dev version. But for now I'll just update the new stuff.
8611z
Posts: 169
Joined: 08 Jul 2015, 20:20

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by 8611z »

https://springrts.com/wiki/FAQ:technica ... u_cores.3F
The FAQ question "Why doesn't the spring engine use all my cpu cores?" needs a better answer. Currently it is awkwardly written and does not answer the question in way that players can understand. That is why the question keeps coming up. I do not understand what the text wants to say either. It seems to be more about making the question look stupid instead of answering it.
("From now on we'd recommend refraining from saying: 'Spring should be more multithreaded'" - except the question never asked that? '..make you look less foolish..' etc) I think the question not as foolish as the FAQ tries to make it appear and needs better answer.
abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3798
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by abma »

8611z wrote:The FAQ question "Why doesn't the spring engine use all my cpu cores?" needs a better answer. Currently it is awkwardly written and does not answer the question in way that players can understand. That is why the question keeps coming up. I do not understand what the text wants to say either. It seems to be more about making the question look stupid instead of answering it.
what do you suggest to phrase it better in few words? explaining players technical stuff is difficult, imo the answer can't be improved much.
User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10450
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by PicassoCT »

Why doesn't the spring engine use all my cpu cores?

Spring could use all your cores, and development-Versions of spring exist that explicitly use all cores available. However, measuring the performance on those cores, yielded in the somewhat counter intuitive result - that spring is slower with multiple cores.

Modern computers are very fast, when it comes to the the cpu, but compared to those cores- your memory is very slow (1/300) of the speed of your core, and it is this memory that generates the biggest performance bottlenecks.
As tough as it is to imagine- your cpu has periods during a full fledged spring game- where it has near nothing to do - but wait for memory to load- and/or the graficcard to receive send data and complete draw operations.

In fact, as you can see in this graph of total time spend during a frame, the time spend in the cpu (busy) is rather small.
<img></img>

So you claim your engine is perfect?

This does however not mean, that our engine is perfect. If you want to optimize things, feel free to step up and put your work into the basket. Be warned though, its complicated, really really complicated.

Companys like UbiSoft, EA and Activision get it done without problems, why cant you?

Because those companys have not limited ressources, require you to have the best hardware to play there games, and work excessively with some approaches, spring does not yet fully support.

If you want spring to be more efficient regarding the usage of multi-threading, moving more of the work to the gpu - with OpenCL would yield much bigger performance improvements. Many - non-gameplay related tasks (like particle physics, physics, rendering etc.) can thus be moved from the cpue onto the GPU and this one can execute those instructions blazingly fast. Spring is not there yet, but will be one of these days.

We understand that computer science seems like arcane magic sometimes, and part of this magic show by others, is creating the illusion that infinite performance improvements are possible. But this thing you are using - its a finite machine. Open a calculator, and multiply 1 * 0.9 20 times. Now multiply it back- value * (1/0.9). You wont get back the 1 you started from. Why? Because, this is a machine. A fast machine. A technical marvell. But it has limitations, who are tricky to circumvent.

But open https://github.com/spring/spring/blob/0 ... eading.cpp
and build your own better version, and let it race against our version in the performance benchmarks.

We would be surprised if you managed it to squeeze more then 1 % improvement from this stone. Suprised in a good way. Welcome to Spring.
User avatar
FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by FLOZi »

Wiki icon ala my avatar in 135px
Attachments
SpringWiki1a.png
SpringWiki1a.png (17.22 KiB) Viewed 8830 times
abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3798
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by abma »

thanks, done :)
User avatar
PicassoCT
Journeywar Developer & Mapper
Posts: 10450
Joined: 24 Jan 2006, 21:12

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by PicassoCT »

Hey hey wikki hey wikki hey.
gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by gajop »

Nuke https://springrts.com/wiki/Maps:Compiling (outdated - last update in 2012), in favor of https://springrts.com/wiki/Mapdev:Tutorial_Finalizing (less outdated)?
User avatar
enetheru
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Jun 2010, 07:32

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by enetheru »

gajop wrote:Nuke https://springrts.com/wiki/Maps:Compiling (outdated - last update in 2012), in favor of https://springrts.com/wiki/Mapdev:Tutorial_Finalizing (less outdated)?
I wrote that page a few years ago, not sure if its still accurate.
User avatar
FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6240
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by FLOZi »

gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by gajop »

I found the page when I googled "springrts map compile"

@enetheru: good to see you're still around :)
gajop
Moderator
Posts: 3051
Joined: 05 Aug 2009, 20:42

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by gajop »

Does anyone know what's up with the wiki formatting? It seems to have broken most code tags.
Do we need to manually edit those tags (e.g. remove the "pre" part) or is there a better solution?

Also, stickied this.
abma
Spring Developer
Posts: 3798
Joined: 01 Jun 2009, 00:08

Re: Wiki: issues + quick questions/answers

Post by abma »

i've noticed that, too. could be the last wiki update maybe?

https://github.com/spring/spring-websit ... e910801666
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”