I DEMAND UNIT LIMITS!!!

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 30 Jun 2006, 22:45

I demand some capacity to use unit limits at some point in time.. this is a useful balancing tool I would like to have as I would like to be able to control how many of a certain type of unit are buildable, and cost/time constraints do not cut it 100% in this regard their needs to be a hard limit...

Torrasque · Post by **Torrasque** » 30 Jun 2006, 23:56

There was someone who was speaking to SJ a few day ago cause he was trying to implement it ... but I don't remember his pseudo.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 30 Jun 2006, 23:59

Thank the community because that SOMEONE is not going to do it anymore. That someone is deliberating whether or not he should post a big hand flipping the bird in general discussion.

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 01 Jul 2006, 00:08

I would like to know why.

Aun · Post by **Aun** » 01 Jul 2006, 00:08

Tim Blokdijk wrote:I would like to know why.

People.

EDIT: Something constructive - Yeah, increases mod options.

SinbadEV · Post by **SinbadEV** » 01 Jul 2006, 00:20

Shame on us community.

smoth · Post by **smoth** » 01 Jul 2006, 00:23

Tim Blokdijk wrote:I would like to know why.

Because it is you I will explain.

Remeber when I told you that no matter what I do people flock to piss in my cheereos?

I wrote a VERY simple patch which fixes the airtransport issue. While this will break the MAYBE 10 units that use the isairbase tag for this hear me out first. They are already broken isairbase was meant to designate airrepair pads. However it is used in ota to do a hackish fire from transport. Some people are all flipped out about backwards compatibility when the tag is still there for what it was SUPPOSED to be and I created a tag named "ISFIREPLATFORM."

in spring units auto return to an airbase or airrepair pad when they reach a certain level of damage. VERY anoying for those of use who have transports we want troops to fire from. This is anoying because we get transports loading each other or aircraft jumping on transports expecting repairs. So I fixed the issue while purposely "breaking"(read correcting) the OTA units... that no one uses FYI.

So then I am hit with a cascade of bitching about the implementation or the variable name etc. Something I have not seen happen on any other patch. Mind you the mod makers are exstatic about it because it fixes the logical and functioal error of isairbase and does a sepperation of it into a specific purpose tag while giving us mod makers the ability to specificly control the behavior without major issue.

However, a bunch of people who never even see the code side of it including dragon who is one of my trolls decide they have a better idea. Without really understanding the issue. At first even AF didn't understand however after I explained what I did and why I did it he completely understood and did not push further for any revision.

I do not have to time or patience anymore for this shity community that looks for occasions to broadside me and spew bile. Any contribution I make is either ignored or generaly seen as a chance to attack me. So I am not going to make the other patches. I have, gundam and school work I can do instead.

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jul 2006, 00:34

And for similar reasons I sometimes feel like giving up completely here, and dropping all projects and moving somewhere else. It's hard to feel appreciated by the users here, though there are the small group who send nice emails and say very nice things, for whcih I'm very grateful and happy to see.

Post by **hollowsoul** » 01 Jul 2006, 00:50

dont u dare give up AF or any other dev
(cant wait till get hands on java lobby & will dig to china (in ireland) till i get NTAI v9 to work on linux)

There will always be peep that will complain or give suggests on how to code something.

Just tell them
"if they have a better way to code it
Fire ahead & prove me wrong i.e write a patch / code that does it better (way)"

Also as side note
Sometimes back support for older ways. Needs to be broken to provide better features, otherwise we get limited by whats in place atm. Plus modders have time to update thier mods to newer features i.e & anyonee can get thier hands on svn code & apply patch if needed (And some kind souls might even compile a version of spring from svn to help modders out)
Besides its a beta if that not a version 1 so nothing is set in stone.

@Fanger Feature Request is a nicer way to ask. I remember asking for small feature request for spring support for linux for datadir values to be able to use env arguements i.e $HOME. Outlined why & in a few days tvo added support for it in svn. While small code change (i think didnt look), it was done

edit:- i got carried away with bold text

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jul 2006, 01:00

In an AI situation if I said that they'd simply use another AI.

Post by **hollowsoul** » 01 Jul 2006, 01:18

Comment was on what to tell them was aimed @ smoth at peep complaining about a patch breaking something in order to implement a better idea. And not offering an alterative patch

But u could be right concerning AI's

Though nothing to wrong with a feature request if u outline your idea on why & ask nicely though :)

Atm i stuck with JCAI & NTAI 7.5 = working atm. Well till i figure whats up with NTAI 9 for me. Compiling atm with your code suggest & also gonna get a backtrace on spring & ai to see if i notice anything.

And other AI's = closed source :/
edit:- (removed bit text since i was going off topic a tad

)
Basicly Kudo's for keeping source open while other active AI's = closed :/

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 01 Jul 2006, 01:18

Thanks for the explanation, I'm aware of the problems we have at this moment with the large amount of non-developers that "contribute" to technical discussions.

There are plans (some talk with Tobi and Jelmer) to reorganise the project.
The idea is to get developers (Content & Code) closer together.
And focus this site more on the Spring gamers.

I just started a little topic in the AI sub-forum on integrating AI development in the Spring SVN.
It's the first step to bring the people that know there "stuff" closer together.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 01 Jul 2006, 01:40

purely a suggestion (if anyone can get around to it) how about a closed (read private) forum section for patch(es/ers) and such. Give only certain people access to it so that the kind of thing that happend smoths thread can only happen if a patcher posts in a "public" forum.

/end complete off topic discussion

Plz people back to the subject: UNIT LIMITS!! these would of great help to modders, if someone could plz do this i would be most appreciative (mainly cause ill be able to suggest CRAZY superunits for Epic E&E)

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jul 2006, 01:42

A dev forum locked only to devs would be useful....

Post by **Tim Blokdijk** » 01 Jul 2006, 02:21

Yhea, let's keep it on-topic, I would like to see unit limits working to.
So...
+1 and someone write a patch

Caydr · Post by **Caydr** » 01 Jul 2006, 02:51

Could be very useful, ie, to make it so that only one nuke launcher can be built... that kind of thing.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 01 Jul 2006, 03:29

I understand to some degree.

I can't tell you how many times I have considered deleting my tutorial, pulling all my maps from FU, and not supporting this community in any way shape or form. But, I always am stopped from doing it because of mappers that do desperately want to learn, and that makes me happy. I like sharing what I know with people and have taken enormous pains to do so.

Plus I am capable of outflaming/making people that flame me look stupid, anyone that decides to take me on.

I am a really nice guy, but if you come towards me with a shitty attitude/smacktardedness/etc then you better be ready to deal with what you get.

While I don't have a problem with him really, min3mat managed to pwn himself a few times when flaming me, therefore we avoid each other and it works out.

Meh, not to derail the thread but it reminds me of when mother and I were arguing about map heights. The bitch of the whole deal was that both of us were right.

Back on topic:

We do need unit limits quite badly. If this community would pull the stick out of it's ass we would have plenty of patchers/devs, but prospects see the bullshit that goes on here and say fuckit, and for that matter... I don't blame them.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 01 Jul 2006, 04:16

I say fuck it... nothing is gonna get done.. well just stick with remaking OTA.. im out..

AF · Post by AF » 01 Jul 2006, 04:34

Why dont we have a negative karma thing in here, and only moderators admins and people who contribute modders/mappers/devs/etc can issue this bad karma thing.

Only it cant be seen and it onyl shows up after its built up, and it degrades over time...

hmm that was off somewhat.....

I dont like how some people treat me with utter contempt and bear grudges as a result even though I havent done anything to them. And I feel ashamed to be a part of this community when I see it happening to other people.

Why cant this be more like the sies I see where people praise and give constructive criticism nd help or they dont repy?

Maybe we should have a message at the top of every forum page saying "Dont be so Opinionated, think fresh!" as these forums are where we post a lot fo content, and we dont want people to come in and stress their opinions we want help, constructive critiscism, and people dotn realize that they dont have to post in a thread about something they dont like to say so, people navigate towards content with busy threads, they should post in there.

You core devs are lucky, you dont have to surf the forums, you have your mailing list, and everythings ncie and rosy. Your not directly pressured as much s you could be and unelss you show your face in the forum nobody knows your working on it save the other devs.

This community is slowly driving away it's devs. Who do you think is most likely to implement the litle things that make a big diference? The busy core devs trying to improve spring and bughunt? Or the forum goers who have experience in coding and want to help that are being taken for granted?

This community is tryignt o sound its death knell by driving away these devs. Who will replace the core devs if they move on? Who will create and maintain your content?

I can see downsides from modders and mappers and AI devs, and the big con is the communities behaviour. Look at how maps are critisized, look at the great mass of people making silly suggestions for mods because they think they know better than the creator after 2 or 3 games.

You've all thrown away so many cool features by driving people out.

SJ and jouninkomiko where lucky to get out when they did.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 01 Jul 2006, 04:36

AF's great comments and advice condensed into a single sentence: "Seriously dudes, just chill...out".

Spring RTS Engine

I DEMAND UNIT LIMITS!!!

I DEMAND UNIT LIMITS!!!