Spring RTS Engine

I have a colleague who I have managed to pique an interest in Spring.

This colleague is a fellow maths teacher and 1st Class Computer Science graduate.

This colleague had to seek help on the best way to get Spring.

I had to admit I wasn't sure.




The 'Download' link in the nav bar (https://springrts.com/wiki/Download) , is different to the Download & Play link on the front page (https://springrts.com/wiki/GamesDownloads)

IMO both should point to a page which consists entirely of two large buttons:

'I want to PLAY games'

This links to the current download & play link, only that page should be ONLY SpringLobby and WebLobby downloads. If games have their own standalone installers, then they can be linked on their own respective pages / external websites / the Games page (https://springrts.com/wiki/Games).

'I want to MAKE games'

This links to the existing Download page for blank engine installs, but that page is made over to include links to Gamedev:Main, SpringABC and PublicRepos wiki pages.


For clarity; the problem was further exacerbated by being unable to load the wiki on work computers, not sure if a firewall issue (didn't reach the usual firewall page) or if it has been down at some point today. In the end I suggested he point his browser at http://weblobby.springrts.com, after I checked that it still existed. Then I remembered he is a Steam user and suggested he tried getting it via the EvoRTS steam installer but did warn that would have its own caveats e.g. game filters in place.

"I want to play games" should list Game Installers, not only Game Lobbies.

Even though recent advance in lobbies made them able to download Spring engine and game, it's still more intuitive to get a game than a tool to download game.

Disagree entirely. We should push everything via rapid. Providing 1,298,340,583,498,567 different installer links is the opposite of intuitive.

SpringLobby / Weblobby - The PLATFORM / WEB-PLATFORM-THOUGH-IT-ISN'T-IN-A-BROWSER-ANYMORE-WHICH-MAKES-ME-SAD (Steam)

Spring - The ENGINE (Source), only download this if you want to build your own game.

S44 - One of many GAMES (HalfLife 2) available to download via the PLATFORM.

zwzsg wrote:"I want to play games" should list Game Installers, not only Game Lobbies.

Even though recent advance in lobbies made them able to download Spring engine and game, it's still more intuitive to get a game than a tool to download game.

Also disagreee entirely. The only exception for this is Mac, but I'm trying to do something to change that. In order to play the game (online) you need a lobby. That also comes with everything else. Thiink of steam, for example.

The game lobbies and their setups are all counter intuitive, and built from the perspective of somebody who already has them set up building an installer. They need to onboard users and explain how to get a game going, which none of them do. Users are just jumped into that paradigm without explanation and expected to get going on their own.

For example, I grabbed weblobby, but when trying to play a game on a fresh computer it insisted i needed an engine installed, and a specific version. No idea how to install that short of going to the site and finding the release post and hoping it was the latest.

I would suggest that somebody document the process on a fresh machine with either video or a screenshot, so we can derive exact step by step with an eye to eliminating or simplifying steps

When was that? I was under the impression that engine can be delivered in the same way as maps and games nowadays

This is what happens when there are no installers:

[Mon Oct 17 19:02:38 2016] === Cloud38690 joined ===)
[Mon Oct 17 19:02:38 2016] * WorldAtWarII_rapid2 * Hi Cloud38690 (Newbie), welcome to WorldAtWarII_rapid2 (SPADS 0.11.39, automated host).
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:26 2016] <Cloud38690> !start
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:26 2016] * WorldAtWarII_rapid2 * Unable to start game, Cloud38690 is unsynced
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:30 2016] <Cloud38690> !start
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:30 2016] * WorldAtWarII_rapid2 * Unable to start game, Cloud38690 is unsynced
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:30 2016] <Cloud38690> !start
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:30 2016] * WorldAtWarII_rapid2 * Unable to start game, Cloud38690 is unsynced
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:30 2016] <Cloud38690> !start
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:31 2016] * WorldAtWarII_rapid2 * Unable to start game, Cloud38690 is unsynced
[Mon Oct 17 19:03:38 2016] === Cloud38690 left ===

I'm certain that making and shipping an installer is easier than players learning to read. Add to the above the fact that lobbies fail at properly displaying download progress and are not making it obvious that something is being downloaded (and what exactly is being downloaded). Oh, and there are quite a few comments over at the S44 moddb profile by people asking for installers (and there were no replies to their requests, which is even more concerning).

Lobbies also need a guided setup procedure. Means that players are not thrown into the dull interface, but guided through creating an account and joining a room. Also I just compiled latest springlobby from git and IT STILL DOES NOT COLLECT EMAILS!!!!!
When will you people understand that collecting emails is good for newsletters & you-havent-played-in-a-while reminders?

TLDR:

• Use both generic lobbies and custom lobbies/installers.
• Use rapid (and the Spring infra) to distribute everything (games, maps, engines, AIs, custom game configs).

You cannot just distribute generic lobbies and hope people will figure out how to play the game. This is very user unfriendly and doesn't allow you to customize anything for your game (imagine if MCL allowed people to customize mech loadout).
It is still however good to have generic lobbies for people who have "grown tired" of playing any given game and want to try something else: the plethora of free games in the platform should offer an alternative direction to modding for exploring similar content.

So let met give you an example of how Chobby aims to do these things relatively easy:
- It offers a generic lobby (Spring as platform), much like weblobby or springlobby. (Image)
- It allows game devs to create customized lobbies and supply a chobby_config.json file which determines what customization will be used for the first launch (See below). (Image1), (Image2)

EvoRTS: Spring as platform: ZK: Additionally we will also need a game-agnostic launcher program that would changing between multiple engines, and also support custom non-Spring functionalities as seen in ZK (e.g. Steam support). I think this launcher should also download the lobby via rapid on first launch, and offer self-updating abilities.

But basically most of it would happen with rapid. It is unfortunate that we cannot also distibute and autoupdate the launcher program there, but I guess other(new) infrastructure can be used for that.

A user experience as it should be:
Download a executable.
Click on install.
The executable starts the lobby after installation.
The lobby always downloads a engine, a game and a map.
The player is auto-joined into a protected newbie-game server.
Game-mechanics reward helping new players (There is always one master and one apprentice).


Anything beyond that is game specific and should not be considered part of anyone elses buisness, but this "base"-experience has to be flawless.
Any want for customization is just a distraction, from polishing the base experience to perfection first.

• Users hate to read.
• make things easier for user to click on things
• write down the list of activities that user might do
• avoid having the user to remember things if possible.
• sympathies your users

(Taken from my notes)

Flozi

FLOZi wrote:I have a colleague who I have managed to pique an interest in Spring.

This colleague is a fellow maths teacher and 1st Class Computer Science graduate.

This colleague had to seek help on the best way to get Spring.

I had to admit I wasn't sure.

Have you ever tried notAlobby? Many people here may have personal problems to use it for themselves but currently I have not seen easier setup for newcomers, yet. I think your friends/collegues can survive the shock of working easy setup and later they can switch to any other way of using the product you will suggest them.

For new player

1) download (linux download), unpack, launch portable application
2) register
3) join room and play

For new developer

1) download (linux download), unpack, launch portable application
2) enable DEV notAlobby
3) deploy ABC game (manually) or get existing project git repo via integrated downloader
4) start skirmish via dev skirmish screen