Pylons affecting gameplay, energy use weapons, etc

[Dream Focus]

The AI can't handle pylons at all. Thus playing against the AI with the newest version, makes an easy victory. Any plans for an option to turn these things off and use the older system? If not, what is the most recent version that does not have pylons in it?

I can't tell if I have any power at all, if my factories are straining, how many more power sources I might need to build, etc, because the energy listing now always shows it using every bit I have. That does affect gameplay negatively. Power + 1000, -1000.

Some weapons only fire when you have enough energy saved up to power them. If no matter how many reactors and energy storage containers you build, you still are set to no power because of the pylon thing, how can you use them?

Wasn't the point of Complete Annihilation to eliminate metal makers, which allowed people to just make more power plants for metal production, instead of having to go out and fight over resource sites? Whats the maximum amount of metal you can get now, and how much energy does it take to get it? Is it ever safer to just build more power plants to get more metal near your base, then to go out and build a power station, pylons, and metal extractors farther out, plus things to defend them? Building the relay pylons means you have a larger area to defend, your enemy able to do hit and run attacks and disrupt it quite easily.

[Saktoth]

Beating AI's is always trivial, they are moronically stupid. If you get to the point you're even using pylons then the AI has probably already had a fit and fallen over dead. Play chickens for a singleplayer challenge.

Pylons are no more effective than the old overdrive system. So, in fact, we've made porcing your econ much worse, as it has all this overhead (Im not so sure it should be that much worse myself).

Under overdrive, your e is always used up, every drop of it. The only real problem is that it doesnt give you sufficient warnings when your grid is maxed and you are wasting e. The new resource bars should help with this, hopefully.

[Dream Focus]

The only other version I played was 5763, and there was no overdrive at all.

What's the latest version before overdrive was added? Can I still download it somewhere?

[MidKnight]

Overdrive was a feature in the revision you mention, and far before that. It's just not very apparent, which was, incidentally, one of the main problems with it.

I do, however, agree with you that an option to use the overdrive system is a good idea.

[Google_Frog]

Overdrive was added r1955, near 2 years ago. Licho was right, the pylon system does make it a lot more obvious.

The AI can't handle pylons at all. Thus playing against the AI with the newest version, makes an easy victory. Any plans for an option to turn these things off and use the older system? If not, what is the most recent version that does not have pylons in it?

I am amazed, which AI did you use to play CA?

I can't tell if I have any power at all, if my factories are straining, how many more power sources I might need to build, etc, because the energy listing now always shows it using every bit I have. That does affect gameplay negatively. Power + 1000, -1000.

That is an issue, the chilli resource bar will fix this by displaying how much excess energy is being wasted and how much is going to overdrive.

Some weapons only fire when you have enough energy saved up to power them. If no matter how many reactors and energy storage containers you build, you still are set to no power because of the pylon thing, how can you use them?

All weapons will work as overdrive only uses excess energy.

Wasn't the point of Complete Annihilation to eliminate metal makers, which allowed people to just make more power plants for metal production, instead of having to go out and fight over resource sites?

Yes, we have eliminated metal makers which allow people to make more power plants for metal production instead of having to go out and fight over resources. Overdrive has to be attached to mexes and each connected mex's percentage overdrive is proportional to the root of it's allocated energy. More mexes = better conversion rate.

Whats the maximum amount of metal you can get now, and how much energy does it take to get it? Is it ever safer to just build more power plants to get more metal near your base, then to go out and build a power station, pylons, and metal extractors farther out, plus things to defend them? Building the relay pylons means you have a larger area to defend, your enemy able to do hit and run attacks and disrupt it quite easily.

Due to the diminishing returns equation it eventually becomes better to expand the pylon grid than make more energy. Currently this flip is around 150% overdrive.

I do, however, agree with you that an option to use the overdrive system is a good idea.

I don't think so as it is such a foundation element. We would have to maintain the balance of two separate economy games or people would try the 'wrong' one and think the game is bad.

[Dream Focus]

I don't think so as it is such a foundation element. We would have to maintain the balance of two separate economy games or people would try the 'wrong' one and think the game is bad.

Kind of ironic. Most people would find the pylon system bad. A survey poll would be the only way to find out.

What version was the pylon system added? I'll play the version before it from now on.

And where do I get more AIs? Are they listed somewhere?

[SirMaverick]

I'll play the version before it from now on.

6796 is last stable without pylons.

[Dream Focus]

Thanks.

http://trac.caspring.org/wiki/sd
I'm using the downloader, but alas, it isn't working.

3/1/2010 12:17:51 AM: Download started: ca:revision:6796

Is anyone else having trouble with this? The download server shouldn't be crowded this late at night.

Any other way to get it?

[Saktoth]

The feedback on pylons has been mostly favourable, actually. Surprisingly, more favourable than most of the other economic changes (people tend to bitch when we change things). If you do not wish to play with -any- form of overdrive, i suggest you simply do not build pylons at all. Since the AI cant use them either, you'll have no problems doing this.

[Dream Focus]

Then neither I nor the AI would be able to get enough metal to build anything, since the new system greatly reduces the amount of metal you can get without the pylons.

And most of what I read previously was negative, but I don't scan the forums too thoroughly. Without an official poll, you won't really know for certain how many prefer one system or another.

I'm still unable to download version 6796 this morning. Can someone give me a direct link? Or tell me how to find one?

[Pxtl]

I'd be in favour of increasing metal output across-the-board with the new Pylon system.... but either way, the low metal output wasn't my biggest problem last game. It was that I was spamming piles upon piles of fusions and my E never really climbed, and I didn't own a single pylon.

[luckywaldo7]

I'd be in favour of increasing metal output across-the-board with the new Pylon system.... but either way, the low metal output wasn't my biggest problem last game. It was that I was spamming piles upon piles of fusions and my E never really climbed, and I didn't own a single pylon.

In some stable version there was a "bug" where your real storage was only about 80% of what was visually indicated. So you could still be excessing energy and it would not look like your storage was full.

[Pxtl]

No, I had the reverse problem - energy was never, ever climbing. However, I was spamming rockos like mad, so I need to watch the replay to make sure it wasn't just insufficient E output.

[Licho]

Use chiliresbar.
Engine resbar cant display correct values.

[Pxtl]

Ohhh, that might be it. I disabled Chili as a desperate attempt to figure out what was causing the button-panel-in-the-middle-of-the-screen bug, not realizing that's an engine bug (on the plus side, I got intimately familiar with the "b" menu and the buildbar until I gave up when I needed to access the "repeat" button).

[Licho]

If you use buildbar, repeat button is top right of the factory icon - it pops up there if you hover mouse there.

[SirMaverick]

I'm still unable to download version 6796 this morning. Can someone give me a direct link? Or tell me how to find one?

You can find the link via CA's main page:
http://files.caspring.org/snapshots/

[Google_Frog]

Then neither I nor the AI would be able to get enough metal to build anything, since the new system greatly reduces the amount of metal you can get without the pylons.

Metal income is without overdrive has not been reduced.

[Saktoth]

Then neither I nor the AI would be able to get enough metal to build anything, since the new system greatly reduces the amount of metal you can get without the pylons.

You're just used to overdrive working on your mexes automatically. Increase the metalmult if you find this is a problem, or play on higher metal maps.

[Netherwolf]

Well, silly question: which AI's do and don't work with the pylons? I tried the RAI, my usual favorite and got no love. Just lots and lots of mexes and solars.
Using latest stable CA 7602 and latest stable Spring.

(Side note: MERL-made water wells on Delta Siege Dry maps is slightly hilarious but definitely a feature worth keeping)