Regarding Final Frontier and Maps

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 08 Sep 2005, 04:13

The maps for final frontier looked pretty nice in TA, but I just don't see them translating straight over to Spring the same way. It would just look ugly. I had a flash of insight though, and was wondering whether it was within the realm of possibilty. It comes in two parts, and they are both critical to its feasibility.

Part 1: Make map textures support transparency
This idea hit me after reading the idea about using reflective textures in a map in the Omega Island thread. Using a certain color for transparent ought to be easier than making the ground reflective. This would make the 'space' of FF maps far better because then you could see right through the map into the skybox and you would have a convincingly portrayal of space. However, the success of this depends on...

Part 2: Make a 360├é┬║ Skybox
It'd be great to make maps transparent so that you could look right through them into clusters of stars and nebulae, but I'm fairly sure that the skybox only encompasses a half-sphere. It would be weird to have half the sky filled with stars, and the other half an infinite void. Remaking the Skybox into a complete sphere (or at least giving mappers that option) seems to be the solution.

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 08 Sep 2005, 04:41

Currently, you could make the ground mostly water, and let the reflectionm reflect the stars, it would look odd, and it would be even weirder when the space ship's relfections are cast on the ground, but yeah, that's all we can do now.

transparancy might be our best guess yeah...maybe homeworldish full 3D control would be nice too...

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 08 Sep 2005, 06:22

The skyboxes are 360 degree, front back left right up and down, rendered as a sphere with the camera positioned in the centre.

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:37

Sweeet! That means all we need is a transparent texture. Cant we just have the texture map have transparent textures?

mother · Post by **mother** » 08 Sep 2005, 07:53

I tested it, just for shits and giggles... The engine doesn't do alpha textures yet, although Im betting its a horribly simple thing to do.

FWIW I had mapconv compile dxt1a format tiles instead of dxt1c... 1c = color no alpha, 1a=color w/ 1 bit alpha (ie transparent, or not).

It just loaded up all normal like. Owell. Ill see if I can decypher the spring code well enough to figure out how big a deal it would be.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Sep 2005, 08:50

mufdvr222 wrote:The skyboxes are 360 degree, front back left right up and down, rendered as a sphere with the camera positioned in the centre.

They are? Traditionally skyboxes are, you know, boxes... It's just textured in such a way that all the edges flow evenly into every other edge, and then the textures are all lit equally and have no shadow's cast on them so it's impossible to see corners.

Gnomre · Post by **Gnomre** » 08 Sep 2005, 09:00

Yeah, and traditionally alpha layers are used for... alpha, not reflections. Your point?

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Sep 2005, 09:03

Gnome wrote:Yeah, and traditionally alpha layers are used for... alpha, not reflections. Your point?

Is it acctually done differently in spring? if so wouldn't that change how you would normally texture a skybox a fair bit?

Gnomre · Post by **Gnomre** » 08 Sep 2005, 09:20

Yeah, just go play CPIA and look off the edge of the map below... you can clearly see the skybox down there too. Spring maps aren't built out of traditional BSP or anything you'd know from other games...

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 08 Sep 2005, 10:43

Gnome wrote:Yeah, just go play CPIA and look off the edge of the map below... you can clearly see the skybox down there too. Spring maps aren't built out of traditional BSP or anything you'd know from other games...

BSP is just a standard HL map format... and at least from my HL experiance HL maps did exactly the same thing with an existant bottom of the skybox as spring maps do. If skyboxes aren't built out of a box shaped texture what are they built out of? Isn't it more difficult to design a skybox if it doesn't conform to the standard cross shape folded box?

[edit] I'm thouroughly confused here and I can't find a skybox tutorial anywhere

IMSabbel · Post by **IMSabbel** » 08 Sep 2005, 11:24

Just quit saying "skybox" and say "cubemap" instead.

mufdvr222 · Post by **mufdvr222** » 08 Sep 2005, 13:25

SwiftSpear wrote:HL maps did exactly the same thing with an existant bottom of the skybox as spring maps do.

[edit] I'm thouroughly confused here and I can't find a skybox tutorial anywhere

A cubemap is made out of six images "a box"
If the lower edges of the four side images and the four edges of the bottom image are textured properly, ie: match, then there shouldn`t be any visible seams, its just not an issue for a normal spring map.
This is the app from ATI for putting a cubemap together http://www.ati.com/developer/cubemapgen/index.html
There is also a pdf document for download that gives some usefull info.

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 08 Sep 2005, 17:01

Gnome wrote:Yeah, just go play CPIA and look off the edge of the map below... you can clearly see the skybox down there too

Funny thing you should say that... I loaded up CPIA to check out what mufdvr222 originally said, and all I saw when I looked over the edges was the stars from above reflected back at me on the water

[edit]flour... I just realized I should turn off reflective water. Consider this statement retracted until I can check it out again[/edit]

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 08 Sep 2005, 18:26

I'm thouroughly confused here and I can't find a skybox tutorial anywhere

I'll write one up by the end off the week. Hopefully tonight.

(While i finish my map)

aGorm

Michilus_nimbus · Post by **Michilus_nimbus** » 08 Sep 2005, 20:56

But wouldn't this aGorm map be wonderfull for FF?

aGorm · Post by **aGorm** » 09 Sep 2005, 00:27

Sometimes.... I leave myself speachless...

Such a cool Skybox.

(ignor me im rambling/droolling)

aGorm

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 09 Sep 2005, 02:04

Cool!

GrOuNd_ZeRo · Post by **GrOuNd_ZeRo** » 09 Sep 2005, 02:33

Pretty groovy!

A giant meteor would be a cool setting for a TAFF map as well...

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 09 Sep 2005, 06:46

<chough>iceteroids<chough>

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 09 Sep 2005, 09:15

Cubemaps I have experiance in, HL uses more or less the same base principle if I understand it correnctly. A tute would still be awesome however.

Spring RTS Engine

Regarding Final Frontier and Maps

Regarding Final Frontier and Maps