Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]
Moderator: Moderators
Suggenstions:
More awesome Goliath, scince, frankly, it sucks.
And the Reaper sucks too, its too slow to be a flamer.
Beef up DDM a bit, perhaps just 20% more RoF.
If you remove the helios, beef up the hurricane to this level.
Give core a lvl 2 build-assist vehicle, and remove the one from arm.
The other changes seem fine to me. Cant wait to have even better Levelers.
More awesome Goliath, scince, frankly, it sucks.
And the Reaper sucks too, its too slow to be a flamer.
Beef up DDM a bit, perhaps just 20% more RoF.
If you remove the helios, beef up the hurricane to this level.
Give core a lvl 2 build-assist vehicle, and remove the one from arm.
The other changes seem fine to me. Cant wait to have even better Levelers.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Some of the best ideas I've seen in a while.Andreask wrote:Suggenstions:
More awesome Goliath, scince, frankly, it sucks.
And the Reaper sucks too, its too slow to be a flamer.
Beef up DDM a bit, perhaps just 20% more RoF.
If you remove the helios, beef up the hurricane to this level.
Give core a lvl 2 build-assist vehicle, and remove the one from arm.
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Archangel of Death
- Posts: 854
- Joined: 28 Jan 2005, 18:15
I think Caydr's goal with the Hurricane change/Helios removal is to make the Hurricane somewhere between both of them so it fulfills both rolls, since they were so similar before as two make one or the other redundant.
If DDM's do not kick butt against anything that isn't artillary or superior resources in lvl 3, then yah, something is wrong. The DDM is meant to pawn swarming units. But if your problem is your DDM's are getting pawned by artillary, then support the thing with punishers/toasters! Or one of those moho exploiters. Just like you have to support Anni's with pitbulls, sentinels, etc. etc. so they don't get pawned by swarms.
On the exploiter issue, if the wait time after attacking is too long that can be changed, we just have to be careful that it doesn't start half closing up while in the middle of attacking (remember the dragon's maw problem?). The open up animation could also be speed up within reason.
Porcer loading himself on tacnukes? Throw some avatars/maulers at them. Or maybe bleed their missiles on flea hordes until they figure it out.
If DDM's do not kick butt against anything that isn't artillary or superior resources in lvl 3, then yah, something is wrong. The DDM is meant to pawn swarming units. But if your problem is your DDM's are getting pawned by artillary, then support the thing with punishers/toasters! Or one of those moho exploiters. Just like you have to support Anni's with pitbulls, sentinels, etc. etc. so they don't get pawned by swarms.
On the exploiter issue, if the wait time after attacking is too long that can be changed, we just have to be careful that it doesn't start half closing up while in the middle of attacking (remember the dragon's maw problem?). The open up animation could also be speed up within reason.
Why both give Core one and remove Arm's? We should be trying to make them equal, not switch which one is weaker. I'd like to see your reasoning (which mind you, would increase the likelihood of Caydr considering your idea).
Give core a lvl 2 build-assist vehicle, and remove the one from arm.
You want skuttles on atlases pinging your base perimeter every 10 seoncds? No? Thought so. Lets just say they are far too unstable to try to stick in a transport.How can the Orcone and Juggernaught be transportable but the Scuttle can't be transportable?
Not possible, a weapon is either targetable or it isn't, and an anti-weapon or not. Can't have anti-specific weapon (yet, and no, there are no dev promises on ever).Mobile AntiNuke should be able to take out Mobile Nukes, its only fair, and its a good counterbalence.. That way an Antinuke (Protector) isn't the end all for inbound missles, and there is a way into a Porcer's base.
Porcer loading himself on tacnukes? Throw some avatars/maulers at them. Or maybe bleed their missiles on flea hordes until they figure it out.
Forboding, for the record, I exclusively play Core. The only time I play arm is if nobody else is, or else I just forget to pick in the battle room. In fact, the main purpose of 1.43 is to fix the imbalance between arm and core that you've noticed.
The reason Helios is being removed is that they make Hurricane bombers mostly redundant. Hurricanes will be beefed up a fair amount to make the transition less painful. Liche's weapon is now going to be the same one-shot-kill for most everything, but will have a much smaller AoE, so it will be more of a tactical weapon than an all-purpose one. These two aircraft - helios and liche - are a big part of what I think is responsible for aircraft being such a dominating force in many games. A single aircraft, excepting the Krow, should NOT be able to singlehandedly crush an entire army. A replay I just watched featured one of these completely wiping out about 30 pyros (in a single pass) which would have turned the tide of the battle because of the location they were attacking. The helios just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and made a bunch of careful planning and recon on the part of the Pyro-army player worthless. That's a really bad thing.
As for Goliaths being so weak now, part of the problem lies in the fact that Bulldog AoE and impulsefactor is so high right now. I'll also be making some other changes if they still seem unbalanced.
Tacnukes were already non-interceptable in almost any case. They launch and move too quickly for an anti to get up in the air.... usually. This just makes it a for-sure thing rather than up to chance. Their firepower is not sufficient for even a fairly large number of them to be powerful enough to be your only defense.
Banthas are not all they're hyped up to be. They're good units, sure, but you can have 3 krogtaars for the cost of one bantha. Even just 2 krogtaars will win versus 1 bantha easily.
About the maverick "buff", sorry, I thought I'd posted this in the changelog... guess not. Sometimes I watch replays and just quickly sketch down things I'd like to see improved in some way or another. Anyway, it's not such a big thing:
The reason Helios is being removed is that they make Hurricane bombers mostly redundant. Hurricanes will be beefed up a fair amount to make the transition less painful. Liche's weapon is now going to be the same one-shot-kill for most everything, but will have a much smaller AoE, so it will be more of a tactical weapon than an all-purpose one. These two aircraft - helios and liche - are a big part of what I think is responsible for aircraft being such a dominating force in many games. A single aircraft, excepting the Krow, should NOT be able to singlehandedly crush an entire army. A replay I just watched featured one of these completely wiping out about 30 pyros (in a single pass) which would have turned the tide of the battle because of the location they were attacking. The helios just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and made a bunch of careful planning and recon on the part of the Pyro-army player worthless. That's a really bad thing.
As for Goliaths being so weak now, part of the problem lies in the fact that Bulldog AoE and impulsefactor is so high right now. I'll also be making some other changes if they still seem unbalanced.
Tacnukes were already non-interceptable in almost any case. They launch and move too quickly for an anti to get up in the air.... usually. This just makes it a for-sure thing rather than up to chance. Their firepower is not sufficient for even a fairly large number of them to be powerful enough to be your only defense.
Banthas are not all they're hyped up to be. They're good units, sure, but you can have 3 krogtaars for the cost of one bantha. Even just 2 krogtaars will win versus 1 bantha easily.
About the maverick "buff", sorry, I thought I'd posted this in the changelog... guess not. Sometimes I watch replays and just quickly sketch down things I'd like to see improved in some way or another. Anyway, it's not such a big thing:
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Maverick speed increased 5%, HP boosted by 50, range boosted 2%-
Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
oh my bad dude. I could have sworn I've only seen you play arm.
ok
ok
and ok
I'm all good with said changes now. So the bulldog impulse factor was the reason? going from 1 to .5. okies, I can live with that quite nicely.
one big request... Since the torpedo bombers don't want to work, can you change the weapon so that it works like a regular bomb but can only target ships and has a large implusefactor (so that it can kill subs)?
You told me that torp bombers worked for you. They have never worked for me period. Whether I had sonar coverage or not.
Edit:
Ack, nevermind the torp bomber, force firing would totally fuck that idea in the ass.
ok
ok
and ok
I'm all good with said changes now. So the bulldog impulse factor was the reason? going from 1 to .5. okies, I can live with that quite nicely.
one big request... Since the torpedo bombers don't want to work, can you change the weapon so that it works like a regular bomb but can only target ships and has a large implusefactor (so that it can kill subs)?
You told me that torp bombers worked for you. They have never worked for me period. Whether I had sonar coverage or not.
Edit:
Ack, nevermind the torp bomber, force firing would totally fuck that idea in the ass.
Torpedo bombers don't work for subs no matter what I do, and I haven't seen it work in any other mod either (including XTA). They work fine for ships though, with or without sonar. Or seem to for me. 
Revised changelog:
Revised changelog:
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updated, check page 53
Last edited by Caydr on 11 Feb 2006, 00:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Spring needs Friendly/Enemy Damage tags, problem solved.. Now whether this will happen soon or if at all is anyone's guess.
I'm pretty sure that any modern game that uses FF as an option, and I mean all games not just RTS, have a system to allow blocking friendly fire or even reflecting it back to the shooter.
If this is possible or even conceivable in Spring is a totally different issue though, it could run off the Lobby ally check and just run a sublist that the server reads from. Possibly alot more calculations to slow things down, but who knows.
ON another note, I still think that Mobile Antinukes should be a good counter to the Mobile Nukes, and leave it as taht..
Even regular nukes aren't much relief for use on Mechs as they're resistant anyway, so Mobiles become base smashers.
Only Mobiles can intercept Mobiles, with Mobile-Anti also having the ability to intercept long range Regular Nukes.. I think its fair trade, and that way its still highly vulnerable, Visible, and destroyable.
I'm pretty sure that any modern game that uses FF as an option, and I mean all games not just RTS, have a system to allow blocking friendly fire or even reflecting it back to the shooter.
If this is possible or even conceivable in Spring is a totally different issue though, it could run off the Lobby ally check and just run a sublist that the server reads from. Possibly alot more calculations to slow things down, but who knows.
ON another note, I still think that Mobile Antinukes should be a good counter to the Mobile Nukes, and leave it as taht..
Even regular nukes aren't much relief for use on Mechs as they're resistant anyway, so Mobiles become base smashers.
Only Mobiles can intercept Mobiles, with Mobile-Anti also having the ability to intercept long range Regular Nukes.. I think its fair trade, and that way its still highly vulnerable, Visible, and destroyable.
That would be the point right? Mobile Anti's have a small radius, Mobiles nukes have a Small radius like maybe 2x that of a Merl and yes I've built them on many occasions and used them to great effect, mostly as Anti-Porc to hit a tough defensive line.
To be honest though I prefer a good cruise Missle oposed to using the Arm only Mobilenuke, I tend to play Core alot more these days.
A great strat was to get in as close as I could and use Mobile nukes to deplete the enemy Anti Towers, then send in the real nukes.
To be honest though I prefer a good cruise Missle oposed to using the Arm only Mobilenuke, I tend to play Core alot more these days.
A great strat was to get in as close as I could and use Mobile nukes to deplete the enemy Anti Towers, then send in the real nukes.
Corvettes not leaving a wreck is technically a bug but it's fine for gameplay.
I trust you just happen to know how to fix the intruder wake bug, Noize?
MRD: it's impossible. Weapons are either interceptable or non-interceptable. Weapons are also either intercepting or non-intercepting. I prefer the latter rather than random chance. In the event that it were possible to have more than one "category" of interception, ie, X blocks XY but not YY, and Y blocks YY but not XY, I'd probably set up Mercuries/Screamers to block mobile nukes. But it's not possible.
Does anyone besides andreask think that reapers are crappy? I think they're great tanks, reasonably good for taking out pretty much all kbots, and any vehicle that's not a bulldog/goliath. Same for mumbo. I know I've heard a guy with a southern accent in no uncertain terms say he found reapers were very powerful!
I trust you just happen to know how to fix the intruder wake bug, Noize?
MRD: it's impossible. Weapons are either interceptable or non-interceptable. Weapons are also either intercepting or non-intercepting. I prefer the latter rather than random chance. In the event that it were possible to have more than one "category" of interception, ie, X blocks XY but not YY, and Y blocks YY but not XY, I'd probably set up Mercuries/Screamers to block mobile nukes. But it's not possible.
Does anyone besides andreask think that reapers are crappy? I think they're great tanks, reasonably good for taking out pretty much all kbots, and any vehicle that's not a bulldog/goliath. Same for mumbo. I know I've heard a guy with a southern accent in no uncertain terms say he found reapers were very powerful!
ok, I'll play core a bit and offer input. I already konw I like the ak and gators, those things in mass owns.
For those of you who say morties blow, you don't know how to use them. They can far outrange a great portion of units and defenses.
Doomsdays don't have the range of an anni, but they have 3 weapons which is more of an anti swarm. Pack like 3 of these together and they will eat tanks.
For those of you who say morties blow, you don't know how to use them. They can far outrange a great portion of units and defenses.
Doomsdays don't have the range of an anni, but they have 3 weapons which is more of an anti swarm. Pack like 3 of these together and they will eat tanks.