Caydr: Here's my suggestion.
Leave the Comm as he is.
Add Hovercraft Commanders.
Play HoverComm if you want Comm Continues, play Normal Comm if you want Comm Ends.
Problem solved!
(Seriously, I think you forgot to add Hovercraft Commanders. And after we posted reminders for you, too!)
Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46
Moderator: Moderators
I would play comm death = end from that moment then.
I dislike the hover comms, next to the fact they solve any commbombing problems, is distords other balances as well.
I think there solution of commbombing can either be making the explosion smaller. The engine could provide a limited comm explosion range, but that isn't there.
I dislike the hover comms, next to the fact they solve any commbombing problems, is distords other balances as well.
I think there solution of commbombing can either be making the explosion smaller. The engine could provide a limited comm explosion range, but that isn't there.
Comm game continues are the best because it brings another tactical component into the game: the death of a comm...I once again agree with Noize :). Comm ends game are best. The biggest reason IMO why people do not like comm end is not because of comm hunting, but because they usually play to aggressively. If you lose comm because he is walking alone on the map its really your problem.
It's just noob to end a game just because the comm is dead - its almost impossible to get into a base to commrush with d-gun limit anyway.
People should stop whining about comm-bombing and learn how to play with it.
The Comm health is fine, too.. - 2 llts and the comm will have serious problems even with dgun....
Comm-Bombing should be added to MTR.
The whine about the comm-bomb goes a long way in the history of this community, and the path is littered with the corpses of the radicals who screamed to remove it and those who always use it. Both didnt get far.
If you do not want to deal with the possibilty of a comm-rush, play one of the mods that have an un-armed commander without a bomb, like EE, SW-TA or even FF, as the FF one doesnt explode.
Comm-Bombing is a feature of TA and AA, it is like trading a Queen in Chess, risky and defeating or planned and rewarding.
Its cool.
The whine about the comm-bomb goes a long way in the history of this community, and the path is littered with the corpses of the radicals who screamed to remove it and those who always use it. Both didnt get far.
If you do not want to deal with the possibilty of a comm-rush, play one of the mods that have an un-armed commander without a bomb, like EE, SW-TA or even FF, as the FF one doesnt explode.
Comm-Bombing is a feature of TA and AA, it is like trading a Queen in Chess, risky and defeating or planned and rewarding.
Its cool.
COMM BALANCING:
I'm going to outline a few scenario's where the COMM is proablamatic (from what people say) and offer a solution that addresses it without making drastic changes.
1) The "COMM-RUSH"
The main issue is that the comm can run in, dgunning everything you throw at him (at tech 1 anyway) and most defenses. When he dies he of course blows a huge hole in your line and might catch your own comm in the explosion, blowing yours up as well.
2) The "Brick House"
The comm, when used defensivly in the early game, can put a stop to an otherwise game ending assault. A few light laser towers and a comm with a lot of dgun juice can stop a lot of concentrated attacks.
3) COMM Death
Right now there is not a huge disadvantage to loosing your comm on an OFFENSIVE action. The comm explosion is only going to further weaker your opponent and benefit your offensive push. Loosing your COMM in a defensive situation is never good and it is difficult to recover from early game.
Let me say that I personally dislike Comm Ends. I know it cuts down on the comm rush (for obvious reasons) but it sucks when he is targeted for death late game when his usefulness has declined.
Now for some solutions. Most of these are a tactical solution rather than a nerf the comm or play comm ends.
a) Personally I think that 95% of the time the horrid "comm rush" isn't really an issue if you expand properly. If you have any layered defense and any overlapping ground defense coverage + mobile units your going to kill the comm early on in his "rush." If you have spotters you should see him coming. On the recieving end you have a choice of whether to move your comm away and outof the blast range, leaving your defensed to kill his comm, or you can rush and both die, it depends on the specifics of the encounter. For the other 5% of the time, maybe just slow the comm down a little? Give your opponent time to react to a rush or micro around your comm to kill him earlier.
b) By biggest COMM complaint is actually how good he is at defending an early outpost. Again, think. Why fight his comm at the outpost? Go around or switch your strategy. I do think that a reduction in the DGUN fire rate/range could be in order though. Instead of SPAMMING the dgun and killing everything, you have to rely more on defenses, but the dgun can still be used to take out big targets.
c) There does need to be "some" incentive NOT to comm rush. I do like the idea of only the comm being able to build nano-towers. Its is a good trade off decision. Either you comm-rush early on, or wait a bit to build some nano-towers. You can still comm rush but your opponent will have that much longer to ramp up defenses or production capacity. Furthermore, you won't have the option to build nanotowers later in the game, requiring that you occupy factories with building expensive assist units.
I'm going to outline a few scenario's where the COMM is proablamatic (from what people say) and offer a solution that addresses it without making drastic changes.
1) The "COMM-RUSH"
The main issue is that the comm can run in, dgunning everything you throw at him (at tech 1 anyway) and most defenses. When he dies he of course blows a huge hole in your line and might catch your own comm in the explosion, blowing yours up as well.
2) The "Brick House"
The comm, when used defensivly in the early game, can put a stop to an otherwise game ending assault. A few light laser towers and a comm with a lot of dgun juice can stop a lot of concentrated attacks.
3) COMM Death
Right now there is not a huge disadvantage to loosing your comm on an OFFENSIVE action. The comm explosion is only going to further weaker your opponent and benefit your offensive push. Loosing your COMM in a defensive situation is never good and it is difficult to recover from early game.
Let me say that I personally dislike Comm Ends. I know it cuts down on the comm rush (for obvious reasons) but it sucks when he is targeted for death late game when his usefulness has declined.
Now for some solutions. Most of these are a tactical solution rather than a nerf the comm or play comm ends.
a) Personally I think that 95% of the time the horrid "comm rush" isn't really an issue if you expand properly. If you have any layered defense and any overlapping ground defense coverage + mobile units your going to kill the comm early on in his "rush." If you have spotters you should see him coming. On the recieving end you have a choice of whether to move your comm away and outof the blast range, leaving your defensed to kill his comm, or you can rush and both die, it depends on the specifics of the encounter. For the other 5% of the time, maybe just slow the comm down a little? Give your opponent time to react to a rush or micro around your comm to kill him earlier.
b) By biggest COMM complaint is actually how good he is at defending an early outpost. Again, think. Why fight his comm at the outpost? Go around or switch your strategy. I do think that a reduction in the DGUN fire rate/range could be in order though. Instead of SPAMMING the dgun and killing everything, you have to rely more on defenses, but the dgun can still be used to take out big targets.
c) There does need to be "some" incentive NOT to comm rush. I do like the idea of only the comm being able to build nano-towers. Its is a good trade off decision. Either you comm-rush early on, or wait a bit to build some nano-towers. You can still comm rush but your opponent will have that much longer to ramp up defenses or production capacity. Furthermore, you won't have the option to build nanotowers later in the game, requiring that you occupy factories with building expensive assist units.
I agree with you, and I hope my previous post doesn't seem contrary. I think he could use a little bit of tweaking, but the comparrison to the Queen is perfect. Knowing the queen is on the board and able to do some damage requires that you plan for it. I just don't like it when the comm's defensive abilities incites a stalemate "arms" race.Andreask wrote:Comm-Bombing should be added to MTR.
The whine about the comm-bomb goes a long way in the history of this community, and the path is littered with the corpses of the radicals who screamed to remove it and those who always use it. Both didnt get far.
If you do not want to deal with the possibilty of a comm-rush, play one of the mods that have an un-armed commander without a bomb, like EE, SW-TA or even FF, as the FF one doesnt explode.
Comm-Bombing is a feature of TA and AA, it is like trading a Queen in Chess, risky and defeating or planned and rewarding.
Its cool.
I have a friend who loves to scheme new ways to CommBomb :) You never know what's going to happen with him but it does make it exciting. I think the chess comparrison is helpful again though. If you "sacrifice" your queen to eliminate one target it really is a sacrifice, because you don't get her benefit for the rest of the game. In TA, if you com bomb, your not really loosing out on anything, except defensive dgunning which is not "that" terrible after the early game.
With limited d-gun you take a tactical componentGeneruler wrote:Comm game continues are the best because it brings another tactical component into the game: the death of a comm...I once again agree with Noize :). Comm ends game are best. The biggest reason IMO why people do not like comm end is not because of comm hunting, but because they usually play to aggressively. If you lose comm because he is walking alone on the map its really your problem.
It's just noob to end a game just because the comm is dead - its almost impossible to get into a base to commrush with d-gun limit anyway.
People should stop whining about comm-bombing and learn how to play with it.
The Comm health is fine, too.. - 2 llts and the comm will have serious problems even with dgun....
. 90% of comm continue games I played ended with dead comm on both sides after 10min. Somehow I don't see the fun in "Who will bring comm closer to enemy and do more damage game". Since those games usually look like that. But we can play once 1v1 and I will show you flaw of this in practise aswell .-
Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
Yes, great so the enemy comm comes into your base, kills everything, dguns your comm then walks towards your allies base to do the same.Machiosabre wrote:itd be good if comm explosions didnt kill other comms so you actually have an incentive to retreat when 2 comms meet, in any case the person who actually had defence there would have an advantage and wouldnt be completely screwed when they blow up.
Dont be silly, just reduce the comms speed/health
This matches my experiences too. As for all the arguments about Comms getting targetted in Comm Ends...Hellspawn wrote:With limited d-gun you take a tactical component
I've never seen this happen, and the vast majority of my games have been Comm Ends. Unless someone gets desperate, makes a mistake, or does something stupid, Comms only get killed when most of that player's base is already in ruins. And even then, that adds more depth than it removes because you can use decoys to make your enemy think you're doing something stupid.
Most of the problems with Comms seem to only crop up in Comm Continues games. This is no surprise - IIRC, didn't Chris Taylor say that TA was designed to be played in "Comm Ends" mode? There, all of the Comm's features make sense. Yes, even the death explosion. That means you have to be careful when killing a Comm in a team game, as you get set back when he takes most of your assault force with him.
I don't think he needs to be changed. If you absolutely must change something, change his Health back to 3000. I don't think he needs a speed nerf, since he's already one of the slowest KBots. (Same speed as the Rocko and Zeus)
Last edited by Egarwaen on 04 May 2006, 01:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Leaderz0rz
- Posts: 100
- Joined: 07 Feb 2006, 21:35
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wizard8873
- Posts: 254
- Joined: 21 Jan 2006, 02:42
the comm is fine as it is. comm death=game ends solves all of the problems with comm rushing and bombing. i've never seen a person go right after the comm unless they were desperate and they wouldnt even be able to touch him by then. in those games, a few bertha blast would end it really quick. i just play with either limit or no limit on dgun and comm death=continue. i've been comm bombed so many times, i can't remember and i still don't mind. i use my comm on front lines the whole time and so do a lot of people i play with. its just another obstacle.
i was attack kluesy yesterday and his comm took out my fatboys. i sent three more and spread them out and sent a whole force with it. his comm couldnt attack all of it and got taken out. you just have to know how to survive. if a comm bomb takes everything out of you base, then its your fault to begin with, never bunch up your forces. if you spread out and build lines of defenses, you should be fine.
i was attack kluesy yesterday and his comm took out my fatboys. i sent three more and spread them out and sent a whole force with it. his comm couldnt attack all of it and got taken out. you just have to know how to survive. if a comm bomb takes everything out of you base, then its your fault to begin with, never bunch up your forces. if you spread out and build lines of defenses, you should be fine.
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Machiosabre
- Posts: 1474
- Joined: 25 Dec 2005, 22:56
what are you talking about? who playes without D-gun limit on? nobody! thats who!krogothe wrote:Yes, great so the enemy comm comes into your base, kills everything, dguns your comm then walks towards your allies base to do the same.Machiosabre wrote:itd be good if comm explosions didnt kill other comms so you actually have an incentive to retreat when 2 comms meet, in any case the person who actually had defence there would have an advantage and wouldnt be completely screwed when they blow up.
Dont be silly, just reduce the comms speed/health
just reduce comm health a bit and it is jsut fine.
I dont care being commbombed, in fact i preffer to do it frist, kill enemy comm and some turretes perhaps and then strike with units. Its all about tactic.
Comm ends game are ussually less fun as too MANY players tend to be carelees about their com and games ends too fast. After all its the only RTS where single unit loss can kill u :)
Another solution: Increase damage done to com by llt and hlt by 50% and leave his health.
I dont care being commbombed, in fact i preffer to do it frist, kill enemy comm and some turretes perhaps and then strike with units. Its all about tactic.
Comm ends game are ussually less fun as too MANY players tend to be carelees about their com and games ends too fast. After all its the only RTS where single unit loss can kill u :)
Another solution: Increase damage done to com by llt and hlt by 50% and leave his health.
I think lvl 1 artilary should have a bit smaller range then hlt (but not much) and yeah advance solar should have some kind of bost (maybe 20% more energy?).NOiZE wrote:Some other things:
Level 1 arty needs a bit more range
And Advanced solars need some kinda buff, they are just don't worth it except on really cramped maps..