Balanced Annihilation v4.7 !!
Moderator: Moderators
new version!
V4->v4.1
Fixed a panther bug
Added custom unit icons
v3->v4
AK speed reduced Health increased range increased damage reduced
Penetrator range increased
Fixed dgun being able to fire 3 times at once
Fixed a typo in merl health
Thunder/Shadow turnrate increased significantly
Reverted tremor damage
Zipper E costs lowered
Fixed panther speed bug
Dominator costs increased to match its increased range
Weasel/jeffy E costs lowered (for some reason it was 600ish)
luger/pillager damage increased and aoe increased ( just trying to make this unit usefull instead of removing it)
Freedomfighter/Avenger costs increased slightly
Bladewing costs reduced
Banisher range increased
Advanced solar (core&arm) E costs reduced (not 0)
V4->v4.1
Fixed a panther bug
Added custom unit icons
v3->v4
AK speed reduced Health increased range increased damage reduced
Penetrator range increased
Fixed dgun being able to fire 3 times at once
Fixed a typo in merl health
Thunder/Shadow turnrate increased significantly
Reverted tremor damage
Zipper E costs lowered
Fixed panther speed bug
Dominator costs increased to match its increased range
Weasel/jeffy E costs lowered (for some reason it was 600ish)
luger/pillager damage increased and aoe increased ( just trying to make this unit usefull instead of removing it)
Freedomfighter/Avenger costs increased slightly
Bladewing costs reduced
Banisher range increased
Advanced solar (core&arm) E costs reduced (not 0)
Last edited by Day on 27 Nov 2006, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
The limiting factor for L2 bombers is their build time. Although they dont cost much they require a big investment in build power to properly spam them.BigBrain wrote:L2 bombers should cost more metal. Now they cost almost nothing and they cannot be easily stopped when they come in masses. At least not from borders anyway.
http://taspring.clan-sy.com/w/index.php ... ction=edit
If you are willing to wait, I can fill it out later, but I would recommend you get the data in now so I can link it up more places and people know where to get it.
If you are willing to wait, I can fill it out later, but I would recommend you get the data in now so I can link it up more places and people know where to get it.
Couple nanos and you have more bombers than you ever need. A bomber costs little bit more than 200 in metal, that is plain and simple insane.Ishach wrote: The limiting factor for L2 bombers is their build time. Although they dont cost much they require a big investment in build power to properly spam them.
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1v0ry_k1ng
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 10:24
Are you mad? One of the main reasons for using bombers is because they dont all get owned instantly. Late game T2 bombers (with the exception of blades) are basically the only viable air unit for reasonable attacking force.
Make enough of them and the majority will fly straight over flakkers and bomb at least 1 run without dieing, where gunships and fighters will just get eaten up. T2 bombers have decent resistance to flakkers in mass, aswell as Mercs/screamers because of the way they spread out. (Merc wont take out entire fleet in 1 shot, maybe 1 or 2 at best)
Also I think i'm right in saying that bombers will continue bombing when dead if they get killed whilst dropping their bombs, because they have a "slow death" if you like - they dont just turn into dust like fighters, they crash instead.
If you send 5 bombers at the enemy who has decent AA up, including a couple flakkers and packos or something, you cant expect to get far..but if you send a MASS of bombers its a completely different story.
This can't be said for gunships like brawlers/rapiers where if you send a mass they'll still likely get completely dominated by flak anti air, or a single LRMT. Its harder to seperate gunships in mass which makes them blow up in massive blocks and chains when hit by flak/LRMT's.
Even tech 1 bombers in mass are viable against a heavy air defended base - the other day on centerrock v12 i went for a mass l1 bomber spam at about 25-30 mins in when ground units just wern't doing the job (flash/lightning tanks and bulldogs were getting stuck in their own corpses)
Trust me, if you have 3 t1 air labs with about 6-8 nanos each assisting, all making T1 bombers, you have more than enough to take out at least 3 flakkers and a load of static defence/fusions/labs as was the case for me.
Make enough of them and the majority will fly straight over flakkers and bomb at least 1 run without dieing, where gunships and fighters will just get eaten up. T2 bombers have decent resistance to flakkers in mass, aswell as Mercs/screamers because of the way they spread out. (Merc wont take out entire fleet in 1 shot, maybe 1 or 2 at best)
Also I think i'm right in saying that bombers will continue bombing when dead if they get killed whilst dropping their bombs, because they have a "slow death" if you like - they dont just turn into dust like fighters, they crash instead.
If you send 5 bombers at the enemy who has decent AA up, including a couple flakkers and packos or something, you cant expect to get far..but if you send a MASS of bombers its a completely different story.
This can't be said for gunships like brawlers/rapiers where if you send a mass they'll still likely get completely dominated by flak anti air, or a single LRMT. Its harder to seperate gunships in mass which makes them blow up in massive blocks and chains when hit by flak/LRMT's.
Even tech 1 bombers in mass are viable against a heavy air defended base - the other day on centerrock v12 i went for a mass l1 bomber spam at about 25-30 mins in when ground units just wern't doing the job (flash/lightning tanks and bulldogs were getting stuck in their own corpses)
Trust me, if you have 3 t1 air labs with about 6-8 nanos each assisting, all making T1 bombers, you have more than enough to take out at least 3 flakkers and a load of static defence/fusions/labs as was the case for me.
I'll say for the record that I have NOT yet played this modded version of AA. However, an area of AA 2.23 that I feel should be addressed in general is the balance of air <-> anti-air. I've commented on this quite a bit.
My general observations / premises are this:
1) Ground based anti-Air is too easy to come by at any particular tier, meaning that air raids have limited usefulness.
2) Anti-air planes (fighters/stealth fighters) do not work as well as ground defenses.
3) Gunships are not balanced between core/arm
The combination of these factors generally makes air a risky endeavor against a compotent opponent. In my opinion:
THE BEST DEFENSE AGAINST AIR ATTACKS SHOULD BE OTHER AIR PLANES!
If I start making bombers/gunships, you're BEST response should be to make airplanes of your own. This DIVERSIFIES the game and makes it more exciting.
That being said, ground based defensed DO have an important purpose. The adv. missile towers should be used to WEAKEN incoming large raids so your AA-airplanes can finish them off quicker (right now they obliterate everything). Flak should be used to protect CRITICAL strucutres against all but the most voracious air-raid, so counter the weaker gunships. Other missile towers should help keep out scouting planes.
The flak boats and the adv. anti-air kbots need to be looked at the most, because in aa 2.23 they are WAY to strong.
Finally, I think the unit scaling from brawlers < rapiers < vtol < flying fortress that cadyr did a while ago was dumb. Brawlers and rapiers should be more even (meeting in the middle ground) and I'd like to see the adv. gunships for both core and arm (not just arm). I dunno what to think about the fortress, takes an eon to build and doesn't really do all that much.
That got long.
My general observations / premises are this:
1) Ground based anti-Air is too easy to come by at any particular tier, meaning that air raids have limited usefulness.
2) Anti-air planes (fighters/stealth fighters) do not work as well as ground defenses.
3) Gunships are not balanced between core/arm
The combination of these factors generally makes air a risky endeavor against a compotent opponent. In my opinion:
THE BEST DEFENSE AGAINST AIR ATTACKS SHOULD BE OTHER AIR PLANES!
If I start making bombers/gunships, you're BEST response should be to make airplanes of your own. This DIVERSIFIES the game and makes it more exciting.
That being said, ground based defensed DO have an important purpose. The adv. missile towers should be used to WEAKEN incoming large raids so your AA-airplanes can finish them off quicker (right now they obliterate everything). Flak should be used to protect CRITICAL strucutres against all but the most voracious air-raid, so counter the weaker gunships. Other missile towers should help keep out scouting planes.
The flak boats and the adv. anti-air kbots need to be looked at the most, because in aa 2.23 they are WAY to strong.
Finally, I think the unit scaling from brawlers < rapiers < vtol < flying fortress that cadyr did a while ago was dumb. Brawlers and rapiers should be more even (meeting in the middle ground) and I'd like to see the adv. gunships for both core and arm (not just arm). I dunno what to think about the fortress, takes an eon to build and doesn't really do all that much.
That got long.
Please dont flame me for this, it is only my opinion. I have played both mods multiple times, and I find them both fairly unbalanced. In my opinion 2.11, while not perfect, was a much more balanced mod than both of these, and that is what we should be playing instead of 2.23 or this.
Last edited by flop on 28 Nov 2006, 01:52, edited 1 time in total.
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SpikedHelmet
- MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: 21 Sep 2004, 08:25
This is the kind of critisism that will really make things happen, good job!flop wrote:Please dont flame me for this, it is only my opinion. I have played both mods multiple times, and I find them both fairly unbalanced. In my opinion 2.11, while not perfect, was a much more balanced mod than both of these, and that is what we should be playing instead of 2.23 or this.
:~D
Seriously though, instead of stupid posts about there still being a problem why dont you say what the problems are? People in this thread have said that AA needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, yet still they didnt name any specific problems.
Possibly the only thing out of balance is your playing skill?
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Lolsquad_Steven
- Posts: 488
- Joined: 27 Jun 2006, 17:55
An unforeseen future nestled somewhere in time.Ishach wrote:This is the kind of critisism that will really make things happen, good job!flop wrote:Please dont flame me for this, it is only my opinion. I have played both mods multiple times, and I find them both fairly unbalanced. In my opinion 2.11, while not perfect, was a much more balanced mod than both of these, and that is what we should be playing instead of 2.23 or this.
:~D
Seriously though, instead of stupid posts about there still being a problem why dont you say what the problems are? People in this thread have said that AA needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, yet still they didnt name any specific problems.
Possibly the only thing out of balance is your playing skill?
Unsuspecting victims no warnings, no signs.
Judgment day the second coming arrives.
Before you see the light you must die.