Xta unit stats and balance tweaks (input for next version)

[Tribulex]

I think Commanders need a buff. Why? Well, compared to the Tornado (Arm t1 gunship) they cannot fly. Please fix.

Seriously arm level 2 should be able to have jet pack. See epicoms mod for example.

[Teutooni]

Why don't you give 2nd morphed comm t2 buildlist while you're at it...

[Gota]

Give The Krogoth a Dgun

[Tribulex]

Give The Krogoth a Dgun

And delete Core_Krogoth in favor of core_krogothpiss. Convert the flamer penis into a dgun.

[raaar]

Can and zeus may have roles a bit different than the other units i compared them to (not as distant as kbots from air,thats bs), they may even be somewhat effective at them, but my case stays: they are just not good enough.

using airdrop would negate their lack of speed at first, but then zeus lack range and cans lack firepower to make up for their cost.

Some ideas on how to fix it:
give zeus 20% more range and firepower.

give cans 40% more firepower...OR....Make can's role clearer: double the can's firepower, but reduce its range from 400 to 300. As it is now i think that given equal resources a player building cans will lose to one massing flash tanks (because the difference in firepower).

Another thing, maybe sumo is a bit too good, make it a bit slower.

[JohannesH]

I really hate it when people just look at single units, saying its balanced wrong, without looking at the wider effect change would have on gameplay

[raaar]

Why do you think i haven't thought about the big picture? Comparing unit stats is also useful when balancing a game, and it's the easiest to dig into quantitatively.

How would the can, sumo and zeus changes i suggested screw up the gameplay?

[JohannesH]

Why do you think i haven't thought about the big picture?

Cause you havent mentioned the big picture at all

[raaar]

Why do you think i haven't thought about the big picture?

Cause you havent mentioned the big picture at all

i mentioned big picture changes in the first batch of ideas. Those would require tweaking the mod as a whole.

Putting those more radical changes aside. Addressing the big picture is....hmm......fuzzier...well...i'll give it a try

I bet rocket hovercraft were balanced taking into account fighting against sea artillery, which is faster than land artillery...If - given equal resources - sea is stronger than land, and hovercraft are supposed to be competitive against sea, the hovercraft will have advantage over land. Where do land-walking ships come into the picture? If they are not as cost effective as other ships or hovercraft because they walk on land, then people will just put their money on hovercraft....The whole concept just seems broken to me.

The Can, what's it's purpose? to be a meat shield? It's hp is not that big, and if its dps sucks - which it does - raiders can just ignore it and focus on units that do the damage, or on damaging economy. If you are threatened by short ranged raider spam, its always better to put your resources on either pyros or sumos instead of cans.

The zeus, what's is purpose? using its higher hp and firepower /cost ratios by air-dropping it into the enemy towers? It seems not strong enough to be used against an equal cost tier1 flash mass. And it's range is too short to fight against units like warriors. Imo pumping out zeus should be a good choice for arm threatened to be trampled by raider mass.


About micro vs mass. Xta should be about micro, or so i read. It is...somewhat... but only on specific situations where economies are too small relative to unit prices:
- large team games
- early game
- early tier2 game

some units are just massed:
- tier 1 tanks
- scout ships
- hovercraft
- aircraft

some just just seem too strong, like the goliath. they were probably balanced taking into account the enemy commanders dgun. Balancing units based on a unit that dies halfway through the game and can't be replaced seems like another broken concept to me.

Imo, commanders should be better at some things:
- defending a reasonable base area from very small raids
- trading blows with short-to-medium range units using a reasonable dps weapon, not 1 hit kill (450 range, not 250)
- fighting while underwater

and they should be worse at:
- mass destruction (dgun cooldown is too low)

imo it's ok if the commander can assassinate an isolated or poorly guarded big unit, but not if it can also destroy a mass of units guarding it and get away with it, unless the units are very accurate and their reaction time is fast, which is not the case if you have expensive tier2 tanks guarded by missile units.

[Tribulex]

DONT YOU DARE NERF MY COMMANDER!!!!!

[babbles]

so what you're saying is comm should be able to kill a krogoth but not 5 flash?

k

[raaar]

so what you're saying is comm should be able to kill a krogoth but not 5 flash?

k

yes.

That's what you get with one unit having a 1 hit kill weapon... Personally i'd also replace the 1 hit kill dgun with something else...but that's just me...

EDIT: it should be able to kill 5 flash, if microed properly, but not 10.

[babbles]

so what you're saying is comm should be able to kill a krogoth but not 5 flash?

k

yes.

That's what you get with one unit having a 1 hit kill weapon... Personally i'd also replace the 1 hit kill dgun with something else...but that's just me...

No.

[raaar]

what have we agreed so far?

[babbles]

We haven't.

[Gota]

I see a nice parallel between the BA thread and this one now.
Best players will tell to most of you to L2P.

[babbles]

Well when someone comes in, says something should changed and validates it by comparing it with a unit that has a completly different role and then says they want to get rid of the D Gun. They're not going to get positive responses.

[raaar]

Well when someone comes in, says something should changed and validates it by comparing it with a unit that has a completly different role and then says they want to get rid of the D Gun. They're not going to get positive responses.

you are distorting my arguments into being ridiculous and then claiming they are invalid because they are ridiculous. That fails to make any point.

best players get used to being kings of their little hill, what to say....they know more about the game than most of us, but are usually also very conservative about making changes.

I'd say people agreed on removing the dgun and live thing. But should commanders always die regardless of upgrade level?

[Jools]

The d-gun must always kill in one hit, I think that's holy for most players.

[FaerieWithBoots]

D-guns stays, not even worth discussing on the XTA forum. And comblast should kill any commander regardless of its level.

Im always in for new ideas, even a game w/o D-gun. But that would just not beXTA. Make a new thread in wich you describe a new A-mod w/o D-gun, redefined role for Can, Krogoth etc.