New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2 - Page 5

New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

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luckywaldo7
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by luckywaldo7 »

Beherith wrote:I really dont get what you think is messed up about this. I told them no wind, they tried to anyway and got burnt. boo-hoo.
Yes because it wouldn't take ca devs longer then 10 seconds to get around your override.

It is messed up because:
1) You specifically targeted a single game, even though it is hardly the only "immersiveness breaking" offender
2) You weren't upfront about it
3) You did it to make a point for a petty argument
luckywaldo7 wrote: Unfortunately, it seems many of the major mapmakers have made it clear that they are only interested in designing for one mod in particular, and do not desire adjustments for any other mods.
I have to take this back, SirAturri made his typemap for FolsamDamDeluxe optional, and even default off, so saying that most major mapmakers are unwilling to compromise for mods other than BA would be unfair to him.
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

Wow lucky, your really out of your league there.
1. Its the only game that it TA based (robots in space plausible) and goes to lengths to circumvent the values provided by mappers.

2. I posted it in the release thread, and the smd file, how much more upfront do you want? You want me to beg CA devs to puhleez don't put wind on my map?

3. The argument is far from petty, in fact, the whole CA team has been arguing for it. I just did it to prove a point, and to show how predictable the reaction to it would be. ( its all outlined quite accurately in the fake lua file)

And on bringing artturi in this:
You have no fucking clue how much work has gone into folsom, hell the only reason it has an optional typemap is because I went to the lengths to actually figure out how that's possible. Mapoptions are a very new thing and we just started to realize its potentials.
And also, I'm perfectly willing to compromise for other mods, A lot of my maps have s44 releases. What I don't like is mods lacking the ability to compromise and trying to force their ways on to maps.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

For me this is the same category as Sena's map.
You could start tweak unit parameters to suit some "immersion".

Winds are set the way they are set for gameplay reason. CA is designed so that winds and solars are always viable.
Tweaking default values changes this. We provide modoption for people who want to tinker with it anyway.

Just blocking wind without blocking unit causes ruined games - people build wind and wonder whats wrong with it.

CA does not wish map to affect its economy or gameplay in other way than using metalmap and accessibility. And even this will likely change because standard metal layouts are not ideal.

If you force extra tweaks of gameplay at least mark the map properly - like "special" or "nowind" or whatever.

Mods should have ultimate control of what is map capable of doing to game as seen by horrible examples of DSD special. This cause is just another reason to provide it.
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smoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by smoth »

luckywaldo7 wrote:1) You specifically targeted a single game, even though it is hardly the only "immersiveness breaking" offender
3) You did it to make a point for a petty argument
Dessert valley had a bullshit metal map and was done thusly because I hate the *a guys expecting everything to revolve around them.

My map didn't get played and I don't give 2 ass dimples about it.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

It would be best to have global switch thats controllable through lobby and enables map lua.
Modders and users expect map to change stuff like gravity, metal, wind values,etc (engine values only).
Last edited by Licho on 24 Jan 2010, 05:17, edited 2 times in total.
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smoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by smoth »

that would be something to consider I guess.
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lurker
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by lurker »

Licho wrote:It would be best to have global switch thats controllable through lobby and enables map lua.
Modders and users expect map to change stuff like gravity, metal, wind values,etc (engine values only).
I suppose, as long as it's default on, and there is one for mod lua too. But that's just kind of weird to do. Or maybe you have little respect for maps because many of the ones doing anything interesting are abusive? I can change that if you like.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

Yeah it should be on for effects etc.

But I dont recommend mod lua to be on/off since many mods will just stop working without it. CA, S44, THIS and many more wont be playable. Maps without lua will work, just some might be missing effects.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

I didnt care much about mod lua (except DSD special) until now. Putting code into map that is coded specifically to snipe CA's gadget is meh. It screams "make new CA version to work around this".

I always was against CA winds on space maps like this, but this override is just silly.
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lurker
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by lurker »

You could make a very complex environmental map, that without lua becomes a half-textured half-flat junk with no metal.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

I dont say to turn it off by default. Im saying you are far more likely to make game unplayable by disabling mod lua than by disabling map lua.

Since there are no cases of map becoming unplayable without lua (out of 3000+ maps) but there are many examples of game becoming unplayable (majority of them). CA, Gundam, S44, P.U.R.E, THIS wont even get resources..
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

You keep crying wolf when there is none. Your really just doing this for control, there is no real justifiable reason for mod overriding map except you wanting it so.

The purpose of this exercise was just that. To make them show their true colors. Im surprised it took this long.

All there is are sennas lolmaps, which arent even your concern since you can just do normal dsd.
Edit: yet noone whined about maps with free fusions, which further proves my point that there is nothing to whine about.
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

What a hypocrite you are :) You want control over how is your map played, so you code offensive gadget and then claim others want control :)

Thats really funny..
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Beherith
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Beherith »

Is it? I dont know who started this one, was it they who put on wind despite me specifying there is none?
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Licho
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Licho »

And? Why does it concern you? Unless you want control ZOMG!
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CarRepairer
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by CarRepairer »

Beherith wrote: there is no real justifiable reason for mod overriding map except you wanting it so.
It was stated already in this thread that you made the windmill unusable without CA's indication - disabling the unit - in a game where people expect to use it in every map. Unlike BA, CA doesn't use the data provided by the "i" key in its gameplay.
Beherith wrote:Edit: yet noone whined about maps with free fusions, which further proves my point that there is nothing to whine about.
Because the maps with fusions are obviously dumb maps like a stupid duck and a stupid ugly gray disc, whereas your map is a nice map that we'd enjoy playing on because it's so beautiful. Take it as a compliment despite the fact that you made this mean attack specifically on CA's gadget.
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smoth
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by smoth »

Licho wrote: Gundam, S44
we have our own maps.


Guys, you are taking it so personally.
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zwzsg
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by zwzsg »

Licho, if you don't like that map, don't play it, but don't go disabling nice engine features.
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Gota
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by Gota »

I don't get it.
Like has been suggested.
Behe release maps and state you do not want CA or any mod that overrides map values to use them.
I don't think it would be a nice move but it is probably better than implementing lua to break the mod unexpectedly and waste people's time.
Personally i don't see whats the big deal,both with CA forcing wind values and behe "actively" caring,i oppose both,however Behe made the map and i think he has the right to include whatever map options that he wants.
I doubt trying to somehow intervene with this through a policy change is a good idea,if at all possible.
The fact this has been done and brought to light is enough.
Last edited by Gota on 24 Jan 2010, 06:39, edited 3 times in total.
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CarRepairer
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Re: New Asteroid Map: Apophis v2

Post by CarRepairer »

smoth wrote:Guys, you are taking it so personally.
It was personal, it was directly aimed to break CA's gadget. No one here is really angry (besides the fact that a couple of games were ruined), but we do want to put it out there that we strongly disagree and we'd prefer a change in spring's policy.
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