Relieve your hate of Microsoft

[imbaczek]

emulator is a very precise term in computing and the definition you seem to base your assumptions on isn't correct. WINE implements interfaces which also happen to be implemented in the Windows OS, but use a different backend (the NT kernel vs the Linux kernel).

[Gertkane]

Which is exactly what emulation means. You can call wine not an emulator because it just says so in its name, but that still doesn't keep it from being an emulator. Emulation is a general term, even in computing. There are different types and levels of emulation.

On the other hand, perhaps all the IT related dictionaries and books that i've read so far have been wrong, perhaps there is one true answer and you are right. Since you seem to think so, just give me a quote from where you get it that emulation has a fixed definition in terms of IT jargon, also provide the source. I have no problems with changing my ways if they are wrong but in this case i see no reason to.

As far as i know, there is no set definition and there are some people (i.e. WINE users) argue with other people that it isnt emulation. I choose to say its an emulator because at a lower level, it really is and i don't see how you can argue that.

[Neddie]

Emulators explicitly simulate the original chipset and backend particular programs run on - an NES emulator, thus, creates a virtual environment to interpret the code as it was intended. This is complete with a virtual 6502 CPU by Ricoh, a component entirely missing from modern computers.

WINE is not an emulator because it doesn't seek to replicate the architecture and backend, it seeks to replace it with a functionally analogous but structurally different entity. It generally depends on the same architecture, it doesn't need to simulate it. Emulation is defined in computing as software emulation of hardware and the dependent software environment - WINE doesn't centrally fake any hardware. This puts WINE in an entirely different legal as well as technical category - part of why you would wish to stress the difference is to avoid possible violation of grasping patents - I believe Sony recently patented software emulation of the PS2 hardware.

Another system which does not depend on pure software emulation - the PS2 and play of PSX/PS1 titles; the PS2 has a secondary processor which functionally matches the core processor of the original playstation - the I/O processor, a MIPS R3000A. It underclocks and uses this processor when a user attempts to run an original playstation title - though it may be noted that some changes to the clock speed will permit you to speed up your classic titles.

There was no jargon in my statement, so I hope you won't try to dismiss it on the same grounds. I've spent enough time opening and tinkering with consoles to know where I stand, and I stand on solid rock.

[Gertkane]

WINE is not an emulator because it doesn't seek to replicate the architecture and backend, it seeks to replace it with a functionally analogous but structurally different entity. It generally depends on the same architecture, it doesn't need to simulate it. Emulation is defined in computing as software emulation of hardware and the dependent software environment

Where does this leave things like the PC based PS1 emulators? They do not emulate the chipsets anymore like older emulators might. All the plugin based emulators like epsxe are not emulating hardware of the console, but rather substituting it with differently written differently working code.

What im trying to say is, that even if its just one side being emulated (only software or only hardware) it is still emulation and i can't say partial emulation is not emulation because it does not answer to the definition for a small group of people out of a large base, espescially when there is no global consensus and no real definition hit down. (i.e. some people say WINE means Wine Is Not an Emulator while others think its WINdows Emulator).

[tizbac]

Playstation has a different architecture so it is emulation, it isn't the same instruction set.

Instead both win32 and linux executables uses the same processor so it isn't an emulator cause most code is being run natively

emulation != rewriting opensource API

[Gertkane]

You are saying since something doesn't emulate hardware it is not emulating anything / not an emulator. I can only redirect you back to all common dictionaries. Even tech related clearly state that there are levels of software and levels of hardware emulation.

EDIT: Not here to argue just for the sake of arguing, if you guys can find me some common dictionaries (even online ones) that clearly define that emulation has to be only hardware emulation, i have no problem with that.

Also, nice to see this hasn't become a flamewar even though our viewpoints are so different.

[Neddie]

I don't do references. I feel that an idea needs to stand alone, attaching a name or "authority" to it merely obscures the point. One reason why I'm unpopular in academia - I can show you something, demonstrate it, but I can't trace it to hundreds of dead white men.

Common definitions are often simplified, you're speaking about a professional/specialist term. In the context of computing it has different connotations. I mean, between people, emulation is simply approximating and appropriating their behaviour. Between businesses, emulation is full appropriation.

[lurker]

By a nontechnical definition I could say that Spring is a TA emulator, ReactOS is a windows emulator, OpenOffice is an Office emulator. WINE has the same API as windows. That's it. It doesn't emulate the windows code, it replaces it with its own behavior that fits the contract.

[CarRepairer]

I don't care whether WINE is an emulator or not. I don't want to hear it so don't tell me whether it's an emulator. Just tell me what it stands for!!!

[Super Mario]

I don't care whether WINE is an emulator or not. I don't want to hear it so don't tell me whether it's an emulator. Just tell me what it stands for!!!

W.ine
I.s
N.ot.
an
E.mulator

[Gertkane]

By a nontechnical definition I could say that Spring is a TA emulator, ReactOS is a windows emulator, OpenOffice is an Office emulator. WINE has the same API as windows. That's it. It doesn't emulate the windows code, it replaces it with its own behavior that fits the contract.

How is this still different to all the things advanced console emulators do nowadays?

[Neddie]

None of these simulate unavailable hardware.

[lurker]

How is OpenOffice opening a .doc different from a Playstation emulator? Do you actually want an answer there?

[Gertkane]

No i meant to quote the last sentence but didn't want to take it out of context so left his previous examples in just to see where the line went in his opinion.

From what i gather, you guys define emulation as chipset (hardware) emulation (like a lot wine users do) and do not even want to admit software emulation is still emulation. Thats fine by me, i was just waiting someone to really draw a line and make it clear but so far it hasn't happened.

[lurker]

Not really. You can emulate software too, but that rarely happens for a couple reasons.
It's simpler to just have the same API and do your own thing rather than acting as an exacting mimic of the entire program.
Programs are generally much more complex than processors.
If you want a piece of software, you just run it (possibly in a CPU emulator ). If you want a piece of hardware, you either have to figure out where to buy it and how to wire it in or emulate for free and simply.

[PicassoCT]

There is a nameless application in my startup, having no comandline...thank you microsoft, for employing people at antivirsoftwarestudios- and malewaremill...

[Super Mario]

It's seems to me that you guys won't let this topic rest in peace.

[Forboding Angel]

msconfig...

[Sindwiller]

msconfig...

Pretty user-friendly, I have to admit :)

[lurker]

Yeah, it's a pretty nice app for what it does, except you can't resize the window.