New User Impressions and Suggestions

[Hoi]

wiki is http://www.spring.clan-sy.com/wiki (It's still not in the link bar)

[nxain]

The question is who cares? The devs just want to write good code and do interesting things? We are all "garage" devs as you say that is fine. A core project isn't needed at this point. This isn't a NEW IDEA, it is and OLD IDEA.
.

You're making a few false assumptions. First, I've been associated with several studios in their early years and co-founded 1 studio from scratch. I understand and have lived garage development and enjoy it quite a bit (the development side, not so much the business side). The term isn't derogatory, it's just an industry term used for start-ups and part time developers (based on "garage bands"...) Also, when things go well, the people who took the risk as garage developers get the payoff. Apple is a great model, but it's also from nearly 30 years ago. YouTube is a better example for today.

Secondly, I've spent around 20 hours in various Spring games so far and attempted to play each game / mod that I was actually able to download (other than Gundam, which I've decided to try out). While that doesn't make me an expert, it does qualify me to express opinions based on actually using the product and it does inform me about how many games / mods that I was not able to get working or had extra hurdles to download (1944, SWIS). Why would I spend 20 hours looking at an Open Source game platform? I'm fishing for talent and curious about whether an Open Source game platform will be viable to do larger scale non-commercial projects.

I understand I've ruffled some feathers. So what.

- nXain

[Hoi]

I'm fishing for talent and curious about whether an Open Source game platform will be viable to do larger scale non-commercial projects.
- nXain

You can smell the talent... Yes, really.



Now to get on topic again:

Little steps at a time though, right? I think a big step would be including OTA content in the installer with any download of an *A mod. The OTA content confusion is probably one of the biggest problems with newer players.

We should watch out with this, since people are legally required to own ta in order to use otacontent.sdz

Also, I don't know if the flagship mod is a good idea, I do belive there should be something like it, but there should also be other mods played, atm it's very frustrating that everyone just plays *A games, and I won't like it to see that again later.

http://spring.clan-sy.com/phpbb/viewtop ... =1&t=15779

That's an interesting idea of me, I still need to complete it, but it might get people to actually download mods.

[sefi]

Lovely.

[smoth]

*sighs* I think I am a massochist, I just keep trying.

I didn't say it was a bad thing, I said we are proud to be that way. If you don't mind ruffling some feathers then i won't mind reducing my level of civility with you. Since after all you seem to feel the need to be somewhat limited with us. So I'll be more frank if you please.

It is a big no shit when someone says getting spring setup is more challenging then needed but 20 minutes must have been mostly downloading files. I provide support for gundam so when I get emails from people saying X is hard Y is hard I make note of it and plan to address it. What I am saying and again, you are just one hand dismissing most of my points is that these sort of cursory once overs are useless. We see them, we get feedback about them and we are more than aware of that issue. You want us to listen but if we are to listen to you, then we need something past the fucking blatantly obvious shit. We hear about installation issues all the time.

If you want us to read and you want to actually help then you need to give us meaningful feedback. Any idiot can give us the average user's first impressions and we are up to our eyeballs in them. What someone like you really needs to give the people of spring is inside insight into how we can make the ui better, or maybe implement an in game editor or oh I don't fucking know you could write some code.

Yeah a main mod would be nice and it would constantly change to meet the features of spring. However as I said, spring is not that impressive past being a great fast rts engine for hobbyist. Again, not like we have not tossed the idea around before. We have, many times and no one wanted to do it. I personally think it is pointless as all the other projects will show spring off just fine. You just have to cool your heels and wait.

While you wait for the content to be made to show off the engine, the engine devs are fighting with stability issues. You could pitch in there. You could help implement campaign support. Right now spring is very wonky. You are ignorant to most of this but charge in and demand a primary mod. Spring is too unstable to start showcasing and when it is more stable by then several projects will be much closer to completion.

So cool your jets and wait, start your own project or help the devs stabilize the engine. Otherwise you are just reiterating crap that we have heard some much it has become MTR, which means Monthly Topic Rotation, as in something we hear about frequently.

PS. sefi gets ignored by most of us, do not take him seriously. We have a few like him.

[[TS]Lollocide]

smoth dun got trolled.

[smoth]

smoth dun got trolled.

at this point I do wonder if that is possible.

[[TS]Lollocide]

smoth dun got trolled.

at this point I do wonder if that is possible.

Yeah, you did, its just a very clever troll.

[imbaczek]

In all fairness, other Open Source projects have to live and die by the same rules and volunteer efforts. Gnome is working. Ubuntu is working. Blender is working. Will Spring work? The question is in doubt.

http://foundation.gnome.org/
http://www.canonical.com/
http://www.blender.org/blenderorg/blender-foundation/

nothing like that for spring, unfortunately. spring is completely volunteer-based, what's needed to be done has been known for quite a while, but in non-funded open source projects what is done is not always what is needed to be done. however, if you look around, you'll see that there are mods in alpha, beta or rc stage that do what you are asking here - they call themselves games, they don't rely on spring engine to promote and/or distribute themselves, they're nothing like TA... it takes a lot of time which could be spent drinking beer. patience.

kdr should be chained to his computer btw and not released till he finishes kp, this and micromods

[El Capitano]

The thread has progressed quite a way in my absence, but I just want to point something out...

Here's are 3 basic game mechanics that would completely change Spring:

1) Units must be built from schematics capture from destroyed units. All units (and buildings?) are modular, pieced together. The only way to increase your build try is to kill enemy units and "harvest" them. This would require a third AI team that can be used for basic fodder.

The fact that there's a recently released mod that does just that seems to indicate you're really not looking very far.

[Hoi]

I missed that?!

Also, I'm planning a mod that involves a research system, like in aoe.

[smoth]

good for you.

[Warlord Zsinj]

The main reason you had difficulty downloading Star Wars Imperial Winter is because it has not yet been released.

[Pressure Line]

time which could be spent drinking beer. patience.

i just spent 3 weeks doing little but drinking beer. it gets old quick. spring modding is much more engaging

[Pressure Line]

double post for truthquoting!

The main reason you had difficulty downloading Star Wars Imperial Winter is because it has not yet been released.

more or less goes for S44 too :/

[nxain]

double post for truthquoting!

The main reason you had difficulty downloading Star Wars Imperial Winter is because it has not yet been released.

more or less goes for S44 too :/

And yet, these are two are the games on the main game page link. Don't you guys see a problem with this? The games on the main game page link should at least be downloadable or explicitly mentioned as upcoming betas.

I don't really disagree with much of the response you guys have been giving me. I do, however, think you're missing the point. My overall point is that you have gotten tunnel vision and seem think (as a community) that having a bunch of half-baked, hard to get, nearly unplayable mods is a good thing for the Spring engine. "it's coming" is an interesting response and I'll certainly check back in the future to see what has come out of those projects.

The last thing I'm going to say is this. As a community, those of you who are very active should set aside your pet projects (Smoth) for a while and spend time helping one of the larger, original IP projects get off the ground and to a very playable 1.0 or late beta state that can really show off the Spring engine. You'll find that a game that takes off will pull in many, many more people who are likely to help out on your pet projects. And, you really should put effort into the whole end-user experience, not just the part that happens when someone successfully gets a mod to launch and gets online into a decent game or gets the right A.I. to work.

- nXain

[nxain]

The fact that there's a recently released mod that does just that seems to indicate you're really not looking very far.

Is it too much to ask to provide a name and link or am I supposed to spend a few hours in the forums tracking this down?

- nXain

[smoth]

My overall point is that you have gotten tunnel vision and seem think (as a community) that having a bunch of half-baked, hard to get, nearly unplayable mods is a good thing for the Spring engine.

I like the half-baked comment, nice and stinging while still being correct. I nicer way would be to just say BETA.

"it's coming" is an interesting response and I'll certainly check back in the future to see what has come out of those projects.

If you want hollow promises I can give that to. That is a lot easier than being honest.

As a community, those of you who are very active should set aside your pet projects (Smoth) for a while and spend time helping one of the larger, original IP projects get off the ground and to a very playable 1.0 or late beta state that can really show off the Spring engine.

I have done nothing for the spring engine.... at all, given nothing to the community. You are correct sir. I merely come here and talk about gundam. I have not been active helping generate free content to give away. Things like sky boxes, palm trees when we had none. Again, you tell me what to do only knowing half the story. I mean really, I have done nothing, why am I here?

You'll find that a game that takes off will pull in many, many more people who are likely to help out on your pet projects.

I don't care about fame, you say understand the spirit of this community but you do not. I think from an artist's mindset, I don't want anything. I do it because I can and because I like it. I'll give you an analogy. I had a college professor for one of my digital art classes who's focus was non-archival mediums. Meaning he would do water colors on toast or even toilet paper. The art work is not important and he didn't want fame. You'll never understand my mentality if all you care about is recognition and money. I have money, I get payed more then enough, I do this job so that I can go home and do stuff that no one but me cares about.

You don't know fuck all and you still preach, how about you look up the towerdefense project here on the spring forum. It is my side project on hold while I work on gundam. That is right, I have a pet project and it is completely independant of anyone's IP and addictive and several people contribute to it. I didn't want to mention it because every time I do people get all excited. It'll get done some day and all of it will be given away to the community. You could have learned about this by now.

Also since you keep ignoring it, I'll explain something to you. Our "pet" projects are what we care about. I don't give two shits about your pet project. I will soon NOT MAKE anything than to help someone like you. Not all sucess is about popularity, there is also personal sucess that you can have from within and feel pleased with what you are doing.

You talk about what is good for the spring engine, well guess what. You are not Tobi, if tobi said, "smoth i need some kind of independant mod" I would add that to my task list as priority 2 under gundam and start planning it. But make no mistake if tobi needs something I am here and I will do what I can. You are not Tobi, I do not move. If you gave to the project I might give one shit about you. As it stands you have no fucking clue how much I have done here or what I have done to help out. You probably didn't look.

I will not support any independant project that is all about being popular or some jackoffs e-resume. Untill you do something worth me giving a fuck about I see no reason to continue with this conversation. I cannot stand people who tell others to take on a task and do nothing themself. Are you just fucking with us or are you going to do something more than talk?

[imbaczek]

You talk about what is good for the spring engine, well guess what. You are not Tobi, if tobi said, "smoth i need some kind of independant mod" I would add that to my task list as priority 2 under gundam and start planning it.

/me wants Tower D-fens NAO!

[Sleksa]

smoth got to post before me >:(