Supreme Annihilation V1.0

[Pxtl]

Its okish mod.

Unarmed scouts bother me bigtime. RLY. Unarmed unit need some other power then like slow reclaim, big sight, cloack or sth. But armed are sooooo much more fun when raiding.

Mid-range cloak (no jammer) and some heavy armour to make them function like peepers (able to crash into the defensive line pretty far before blowing up)? Superlong sight range? Short-ranged radar? Dunno. Anything beyond the obvious (armour and sight-range) would probably make the thing too complex for L1.

[Tired]

The purpose of a scout hover can be found in its statistics. Maxvelocity of 4.83 + sightdistance of 540 + 44 metal build cost = purebred scout. Why do you need this when air scouts give you more for your money?

What if, shock of shocks, you didn't build tier 1 air, and didn't feel like dumping resources and time into the factory right then? What if you needed to get through a tier 1 Fighter screen that Peepers wouldn't penetrate but ground would? What if you wanted long-term shore scouting, which scout boats CAN'T handle, btw, because their sightdistance is crap (fire mostly based on much cheaper 500 range radar)?

Why do you need to scout for hovers? How about only losing 44 metal to find beach defenses instead of 260 for an Anaconda (2.875 maxvelocity, 340 sightdistance)?

That being said, I don't give a rat's arse one way or another. My play style lends itself more to amphibious units since atm you get better selection for a cheaper factory (which's what I might complain about were I you). You want a 115 metal hovertank with Flash Tank dps? I can pull it off, though its health would take a hit. Feel free to start a poll - it'll be heeded.

[Pxtl]

Any plans to publicize this big whacked-out math function you've developed? I'm starting to get curious to see it.

[NOiZE]

Trademark added SA to Mod-Info =) http://modinfo.adune.nl/index.php?MOD=sa

[Teutooni]

Too early to say what needs what, I have built hovers in SA only once, and certainly didn't need a hovering flash. I was just pointing out the greater loss of raiding capability for the hover family compared to vehicles which have flash/gator. On the other hand hovers have a different role and might not need a raiding unit at all.

I agree scouts should be unarmed and do what they were meant to do - scouting, not raiding.

[MR.D]

Hover scouts keeping their weapon is something I happen to agree with.

Its basically a Lvl-1.5 factory, and a decent investment in metal and strategy over the regular LVL-1 factories, it should have some perks like that..

[Tired]

For a time I considered hovermexs for morphing. Not full-blown moho mexs, but something appreciable for the investment. Too much is following the wake of SupCom, though, and if that's what the game wants to become, then there's no purpose in maintaining Spring.

[Forboding Angel]

/facepalm

[Gota]

There can be no critic atm TBH.
The mod needs to settle down and get played a lot for players to be able to criticise it in one way or another.

[BlueTemplar]

Well, I played several games of this mod:
First, I fail to see what was really improved compared to TiA, I suppose it was mostly balance?
I'd tend to agree with several points in these posts:

Rezbots should go back to T1, here's why:
- You talk about giving choices to players... but now, once you reach T2, what will you make in your T1 lab? I used to build rezbots, to use all the available scrap. I hear that now T1 bots are better, but won't players rather reclaim their T1 lab to speed up their tech to T2?
- T2 already has the one support k-bot : the FARK, and too many useful units to waste it's time to rezbots.

Hovertanks are T1.5, and don't have any fast raider unit anymore... You can't afford for a T1.5 unit to not have any weapon, only radar!... Idea: give them an emp weapon? Another idea: give them a "grenade": a short range rocket (like Janus, but shorter range), with a very slow reload rate. That way you won't have another "flash on foil". They will become an interesting hit-and-run unit.

Ok, now hovertank and ship scouts have a weapon, air is air, kbot is all-terrain. What does the vehicle have? A long range? - not that useful, since blocked by hills; very fast? - not realistic, it's a vehicle after all...; cloak,jammer? - too good for a T1 unit; cheap and somewhat resistant to damage: that's the idea! Maybe give them instead some false signatures, like the jammer tower? because 4x armor won't help against a static defense that has 10x overkill on a scout anyway...

About T1 jammer towers: didn't they have cloak in TiA? That was a REALLY interesting ability, combined with snipers or a com...

Now, about the eco:
I find a bit weird, that on maps with trees and geothermal vents, you can directly build a geothermal plant, without building any solar collectors or wind generators... I don't really see why you would do otherwise... unless you have only very few metal spots to claim and are forced to use metal makers.

Anyway, IMHO you can't find a mathemathic function that will give you a good game balance right from the start. There are too many variables here... You will have to rebalance anyway. (Even if in the end you will probably get a better balance than if you do everything "by the feelings")

[Pxtl]

Well, I played several games of this mod:
First, I fail to see what was really improved compared to TiA, I suppose it was mostly balance?
I'd tend to agree with several points in these posts:

Rezbots should go back to T1, here's why:
- You talk about giving choices to players... but now, once you reach T2, what will you make in your T1 lab? I used to build rezbots, to use all the available scrap. I hear that now T1 bots are better, but won't players rather reclaim their T1 lab to speed up their tech to T2?
- T2 already has the one support k-bot : the FARK, and too many useful units to waste it's time to rezbots.

L1 Rezbots were, imho, a totally silly decision by the BA crew to make L1 kbots "useful". We don't have to dump wierdo special-purpose L2 units into an L1 fac for any other facility, why should kbots be different? L1 kbots should be useful on their own - stuffing a single must-have unit in there to keep it around is weak sauce.

About T1 jammer towers: didn't they have cloak in TiA? That was a REALLY interesting ability, combined with snipers or a com...

You mean a "silly and unbalanced ability", then I agree with you. The cloaked/jam tower was Caydr's worst-idea-evar. In an artillery-oriented game (like AA 1.X or SA), a lot of effort goes into taking out the L1 jammer towers. The L1 arty/jammer gameplay is slightly similar to the L2 nuke/antinuke gameplay, since the jammer is a "weak spot" that you want to take out to make the enemy area easier to bombard. Making an L1 cloakable jammer tower is as bad an idea as a cloakable anti-nuke.

[Peet]

SA is artillery oriented? Isn't one of the main qualms B/S/C/whatever-A players have against XTA?

Not trying to annoy anyone here, I just find this confusing.

[BaNa]

Any plans to publicize this big whacked-out math function you've developed? I'm starting to get curious to see it.

I think he has previously, somewhere up here on da forums. Thread turned into one of those mile-long flamefests tho.

[REVENGE]

I'm going to add my own selfish comment: please work on making an error debug release before continuing to balance. I enjoy playing this mod, but ending up crashing 30 minutes in every other game really turns me off.

[Noruas]

SA is artillery oriented? Isn't one of the main qualms B/S/C/whatever-A players have against XTA?

Not trying to annoy anyone here, I just find this confusing.

Xta is horrible, we are not allowed to say its name here!

[Gota]

Why do people who dont play the mod bother talking at all?
Your opinions are worth shit unless u play the mod.
Its so funny to see people speculating and making all kinds of theories based on tireds description of the mod..ffs go play for some time than come back and state ur opinon.Maybe than it wont sound so silly to peole who actually play it,cause it does.

[Teutooni]

There has been alot of speculation whether scouts are redundant when unarmed. How about making t1 scouts stealth?

One could sneak in a scout early game, hide in a corner and take a peek of what's happening deep inside the enemy base every now and then. As it is, t1 scouts are mostly one-shot, because they are so easy to spot and eliminate. I have seen some drive 2 scouts near a mex and self-d, kinda defeats the purpose of unarmed scouts. If stealth, their lifespan behind enemy lines would improve, making them more valuable as scouts.

[NOiZE]

There has been alot of speculation whether scouts are redundant when unarmed. How about making t1 scouts stealth?

One could sneak in a scout early game, hide in a corner and take a peek of what's happening deep inside the enemy base every now and then. As it is, t1 scouts are mostly one-shot, because they are so easy to spot and eliminate. I have seen some drive 2 scouts near a mex and self-d, kinda defeats the purpose of unarmed scouts. If stealth, their lifespan behind enemy lines would improve, making them more valuable as scouts.

kinda like this idea.

[[Krogoth86]]

Lol - exactly what I did in my mod. Weasels just like Fleas became unarmed stealthy scouts with a good sight range. It's also funny to watch replays then and you see that your enemy got his scouts parking on a hill near you for dozens of minutes without you noticing them...

[Machiosabre]

I think that would be freaking annoying though, unless it cost E to stealth like the com or was only stealth while standing still or something.