Absolute Annihilation 2.11

kirbyssb · Post by **kirbyssb** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:02

SwiftSpear wrote:I just played a game and I'd like to know what the offencive counter to blades is. It seems they are all but invunerable over enemy territory, you can't kill them with flak trucks, you can't kill them with fighters because of enemy AA, and enough of them, just like brawlies, will take down any mentionalbe ground force. Am I missing something or do blades make an invulnerable defence line?

I know what you mean, I think they need to be slightly nerfed

2pacalypse · Post by **2pacalypse** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:37

kirbyssb wrote:
SwiftSpear wrote:I just played a game and I'd like to know what the offencive counter to blades is. It seems they are all but invunerable over enemy territory, you can't kill them with flak trucks, you can't kill them with fighters because of enemy AA, and enough of them, just like brawlies, will take down any mentionalbe ground force. Am I missing something or do blades make an invulnerable defence line?
I know what you mean, I think they need to be slightly nerfed

I've been attacked with blades like this before, and had a mixed force of bulldogs, diplomats, and flak trucks. Five flak trucks took out about an equal amount of blades, and chewed up krows as well. I've noticed that blades aren't anyways accurate in picking out specific units, so if they're attempting to fire at your flak trucks they may hit other units instead if they're bunched up together. A LRMT strategically placed by your enemy's front line can be a huge boon as well.

As an aside, I'm really happy with the new patch and balancing in general. I've been meaning to make a post about it, but I'll just mention it here.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:53

Just because Blades are resistant to flak doesn't mean they're invincible to it. Enough flak will rip them up, just like any other gunship, especially since they still do a lot of damage to other gunships when they explode.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jul 2006, 06:54

Goomba!

In conclusion, we need a Mario Brothers Mod.

I mean... uhhh... sorry about that. As for an offensive counter, I agree with Min3Mat: Planes.

SwiftSpear · Post by **SwiftSpear** » 03 Jul 2006, 08:05

Egarwaen wrote:Just because Blades are resistant to flak doesn't mean they're invincible to it. Enough flak will rip them up, just like any other gunship, especially since they still do a lot of damage to other gunships when they explode.

It's hard to bring in enough flak in range of HLT's and Annis. IMO there shouldn't be a flak resistant air option. Flak is the staple air defence of mobile forces, and you need mobile forces to attack the enemy. A flak resistant gunship doesn't really encourage more diversity of in base air defence, because people would have mercuries and packo's in base anyways for thier own respective advantages compared to inbase flak. All a flak resistant gunship does is make it so there's no viable option of air defence for mobile ground forces. Blades are an invincible inbase defence.

unpossible · Post by **unpossible** » 03 Jul 2006, 09:27

SwiftSpear wrote:Blades are an invincible inbase defence.

surely a combined force of anti-air fighters and jethros will get rid of them?
admittedly the fighters won't last very long but if they're close to the the blades when the screamers hit they'll get taken down too...

perhaps you could even send in a horde of peepers to force the screamers to fire on their own aircraft once they've been goaded into attacking?

Comp1337 · Post by **Comp1337** » 03 Jul 2006, 09:49

the AA kbots will have missiles AFAIK, that will certainly rip blades to shreds.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jul 2006, 10:39

Comp1337 wrote:the AA kbots will have missiles AFAIK, that will certainly rip blades to shreds.

Which then will perpetuate the "Vehicles Suck!" complaints...

No, but that is a good point. There will be an effective mobile L2 AA force. Anyway, I once again must recommend actual fighters against Flak-resistant.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 03 Jul 2006, 11:10

i dont have problems with blades. Bring some flaks or like 20+ jetrhos or forward build LRAA. Some sucide figters also work.

What REALLY bothers me is core uselessness. Main reason? SNIPERS. I play only arm atm

cause microed snipers can not be countered as core. I won like 3 games yesterday where sniper did the magic. One solution that i see is to give diplomat TRACKING missile. Maybe reduce its damage but it must kill sniper with 1 shot. Core has awsome tremor as artilery and doesnt need diplo (diplo is useless comapred do tremor)

What do other think?

BTw, air wont counter snipers as smart arm has AA behind. Only something with similar range can kill em. (odd ak spam wont work when someone micro and has units behind.) Tracking diplomat misslie will work to some extend (sniper can still cloack after shot and move away - misslie will loose track)

Lets get core back in game plz.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 03 Jul 2006, 11:41

The problem with the sniper is that it is stealth, AND can cloak!!

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jul 2006, 11:51

The balancing factor is that the unit uncloaks while firing, requiring excessive micro. This micro, while not pointless, detracts from a player's ability to do other things (Generally lowering his ability to defend, for example) and the unit may still be taken down by a number of ways...

1. Gunships. Speed and relative cost make this a great idea.
2. Hovercraft. They react exceedingly fast on flat terrain and can catch Snipers before they cloak once more. And yes, I know, I probably like them too much.
3. Troop Transports. Pick them up, and have them for breakfast!
4. Stunners. Well - no explanation needed.
5. EMP missiles. What else are you planning on using them for?

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:07

NOiZE wrote:The problem with the sniper is that it is stealth, AND can cloak!!

Yep so only time u can see it is when it fires (it decloacks for like 2 secs) As core even if u have los and see sniper there is nothing that will kill it (except DDM that has only 50 more range

)

Core needs something that a) tracks or b)has long range laser

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:08

NOiZE wrote:The problem with the sniper is that it is stealth, AND can cloak!!

Ya i hate snipers too... they have too long range also.

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:16

theres expensive though, cost a lot of e to fire. just try to punch through somewhere else with reapers and air support.
however you recently posted a 4v4 game and i don't doubt you are commenting on it. games should not be balanced for 4v4 especially on maps not even designed for 4v4.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:19

Min3mat wrote:theres expensive though, cost a lot of e to fire. just try to punch through somewhere else with reapers and air support.
however you recently posted a 4v4 game and i don't doubt you are commenting on it. games should not be balanced for 4v4 especially on maps not even designed for 4v4.

Now, now, large games are one of the greatest attractions of the Spring engine. I personally would rather play a 5v5 than a 2v2, if only because I can still fight with a few dropped allies - and I believe we can balance any mod for both large and small games without difficulty. However, that map does feel really, really bad for the play.

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:22

Ya and i play ARM when i want to kill by land, and CORE when i want to kill by air.

ARM has ├â┬╝ber land units: 'Recluse' which owns everything when you have enough of them, and: 'Sniper', kills enemy defenses. Recluses with 'Spider' units owns too much.

CORE only good land units are: 'Can' and 'Goliath'. But they are slow as hell. And cost too much to be used against ARM 'Recluse' units. You need more than 3 goliaths to kill 20 recluse units, if you dont have, you are dead.

CORE has uber air unit, 'Rapier'. Kills everything fast.

I personally hate Recluse, Spider, and Sniper units, and sometimes Rapier too :)

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:25

sniper are even more devastating in 1v1 as u can micro them even more. Its allmost too good unit (as arm i counter them with own snipers or anni, as core its harder )

Maybe make every shot costing 5k E ? (thats 50M) Or remove cloacking would help too.(but just that is not enough imo)

TradeMark · Post by **TradeMark** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:28

Or make cloak cost more.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:35

maybe 250/500 cloacking cost and range to 850 would balance snipers?

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 03 Jul 2006, 12:39

That sounds Harsh!

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation 2.11