After having tested these changes myself, I have to agree with kelson and caydr.
Besides, it isn't THAT big of a change.
Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]
Moderator: Moderators
Ive always said I agree they should be nerfed, I just dont want them to be nrfed beyond usefulness like what happened with the emp spiders 
poor my spiders...
And Kelson... stop exagerrating that swarm of brawlers never would have taken down 5 flakkers my antibomber and level 1 turrets before they were destroyed themselves, just watch the replay, next time you send that bantha send some aa with it maybe :)
poor my spiders...
And Kelson... stop exagerrating that swarm of brawlers never would have taken down 5 flakkers my antibomber and level 1 turrets before they were destroyed themselves, just watch the replay, next time you send that bantha send some aa with it maybe :)
I dont mind which way the balance goes though tbh, aa will still be fun, which is why were all here in the first place... hehe
While Im here, any chance we could get the emp spider speed set back to what it was before they were changed, or maybe the buildtime reduced to what it was - I never use them anymore, they just take too long to build and are a bit too slow to get to their target, I had such fun with that unit...
pweeeese :) hehe
While Im here, any chance we could get the emp spider speed set back to what it was before they were changed, or maybe the buildtime reduced to what it was - I never use them anymore, they just take too long to build and are a bit too slow to get to their target, I had such fun with that unit...
pweeeese :) hehe
Viper
Last one I promise,
the viper fps is bugged? I cant imagine its supposed to be able to fire
half the lenght of the riverdale map is fps mode...
Anychance you could sort this problem Caydr if you get a chance?
Someone, who shall remain nameless took it upon himself to fire into our base from mid map on Riverdale and destroy 2 of our fusion reactors right up at the back, and a few other things, after all this complaing about how 8 brawlers can take out a fusion surrounded by flak a lowly viper can do it without even a scratch hehe, weird, most people realise this is probably a bug and dont do it, but theres always one isnt there... "cough" Kelson "cough"
hehe
the viper fps is bugged? I cant imagine its supposed to be able to fire
half the lenght of the riverdale map is fps mode...
Anychance you could sort this problem Caydr if you get a chance?
Someone, who shall remain nameless took it upon himself to fire into our base from mid map on Riverdale and destroy 2 of our fusion reactors right up at the back, and a few other things, after all this complaing about how 8 brawlers can take out a fusion surrounded by flak a lowly viper can do it without even a scratch hehe, weird, most people realise this is probably a bug and dont do it, but theres always one isnt there... "cough" Kelson "cough"
hehe
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
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- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
LOL steve 
Like I said, I have tested the changes myself and they are very good. Have faith my brethren :D
About the fps thing. TMK it is a problem with spring. THe reason you can'y do the same thing with missles is because they fveer of as if tracking something.
Rockets do not track and iirc the projectile never slows down. Therefore, fire them up in the air and gravity pulls them down. I'm thinking the only way to stop this behavior is to change the max angle of aim
Like I said, I have tested the changes myself and they are very good. Have faith my brethren :D
About the fps thing. TMK it is a problem with spring. THe reason you can'y do the same thing with missles is because they fveer of as if tracking something.
Rockets do not track and iirc the projectile never slows down. Therefore, fire them up in the air and gravity pulls them down. I'm thinking the only way to stop this behavior is to change the max angle of aim
Re: Viper
I brought it up with Caydr already and suggested a couple ways he might be able to correct it (thought they may not work). For the record, the viper is far from the only unit with this particular issue - I can name 4 others off the top of my head (though 2 are pretty weak).BigSteve wrote:Someone (Kelson), who shall remain nameless (Kelson) took it upon himself (Kelson) to fire into our base from mid map on Riverdale and destroy 2 of our fusion reactors right up at the back [edit: +2 big berthas!], and a few other things, after all this complaing about how 8 brawlers can take out a fusion surrounded by flak a lowly viper can do it without even a scratch hehe, weird, most people (Kelson) realise this is probably a bug and dont do it, but theres always one (Kelson) isn't there... "cough" Kelson Kelson Kelson Kelson Kelson "cough"
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
- Posts: 14673
- Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
lol@ steve :D
It simply gives flak a teeny bit of a head start to aim.
Now kee[p in mind that 1 flak gun will completely own a few l1 fighters, but... It should.
However consider this. No matter how much flak you have a helios ALWAYS makes it through. That should not be the case.
The reason the helios makes it through is because they fly Very high in the sky so flak is much less effective against them. I don't think that gunships should ever be a good base busting tool. It takes away from the purpose of having bombers.
I don't understand at all why ppl don't use liche's very much. That unit is simply amazing, especially in fps mode. Consider this...
Instead of trying to attack the heart of a base with bombers, use them to take out defence lines and then march your army through. I used this tactic with great effect vs fizwiz a while back in a 3 vs 3 match. I bombed the living hell out of their front lines and then gollies and tremors marched through without so much as a scratch. About then the game crashed lol. Damn 56k hosters... /me looks at fizwiz ;P
It simply gives flak a teeny bit of a head start to aim.
Now kee[p in mind that 1 flak gun will completely own a few l1 fighters, but... It should.
However consider this. No matter how much flak you have a helios ALWAYS makes it through. That should not be the case.
The reason the helios makes it through is because they fly Very high in the sky so flak is much less effective against them. I don't think that gunships should ever be a good base busting tool. It takes away from the purpose of having bombers.
I don't understand at all why ppl don't use liche's very much. That unit is simply amazing, especially in fps mode. Consider this...
Instead of trying to attack the heart of a base with bombers, use them to take out defence lines and then march your army through. I used this tactic with great effect vs fizwiz a while back in a 3 vs 3 match. I bombed the living hell out of their front lines and then gollies and tremors marched through without so much as a scratch. About then the game crashed lol. Damn 56k hosters... /me looks at fizwiz ;P
I don't mean to be rude, but I call BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT BULLSHIT! =p...Hehe, I loved when I played that cardgame at a younger age.
All these test results you guys have been posting about brawlers are funky. I just built 10 flakkers next to each other (of course, I want to protect my vital economic area)...Now tell me... You supposedly ran this test right? 20 brawlers vs 10 flakkers supposedly took out 6 flakker? Umm... Why is it that when bigSteve and I did it, the brawlers took out ONE flakker before all dying? Thats 20 brawlers, 1 flakker... Hrm =p
Next test: We tried 10 flakkers against 50 brawlers...The same "test" that was supposedly done AFTER the huge nerf(and yes Forboding, its a HUGE nerf. Thats 25% dmg increase to AOE damage. AOE makes a difference.) thats coming in right? Sooo...50 brawlers took out all 10 flakkers in this test? Hrm... I don't know what ya'll are doing... When bigSteve attacked MY 10 flakkers, 50 brawlers took out 4 flakkers before EVERY brawler was dead... Thats a 50 to 4 ratio. Hrm.
We are obviously thinking different things here guys... I will agree with bigSteve that brawlers could use a SMALL nerf (Make them slower maybe)... But there is absolutely no reason to do this nerf to brawlers. EMP spiders are already useless (yes, they are. I never build them anymore. I knew they would be when I saw the nerf changes. Caydr, i'm afraid you have this tendency to overnerf things into oblivion sometimes =(.).
Ah well. Thats all i'm going to say on this topic. Maybe i'll just stay at version 1.35 of AA for awhile and skip 1.40 if it stays like this. flakkers do NOT need a damage boost against gunships. Air is already crappy enough, rapiers/brawlers are really the only thing left and your taking them away... Giving flakkers the 10% range boost may be ok, since that will allow you to make a WIDER area of your base impervious...all those changes together? I'll pass.
-Drexion
All these test results you guys have been posting about brawlers are funky. I just built 10 flakkers next to each other (of course, I want to protect my vital economic area)...Now tell me... You supposedly ran this test right? 20 brawlers vs 10 flakkers supposedly took out 6 flakker? Umm... Why is it that when bigSteve and I did it, the brawlers took out ONE flakker before all dying? Thats 20 brawlers, 1 flakker... Hrm =p
Next test: We tried 10 flakkers against 50 brawlers...The same "test" that was supposedly done AFTER the huge nerf(and yes Forboding, its a HUGE nerf. Thats 25% dmg increase to AOE damage. AOE makes a difference.) thats coming in right? Sooo...50 brawlers took out all 10 flakkers in this test? Hrm... I don't know what ya'll are doing... When bigSteve attacked MY 10 flakkers, 50 brawlers took out 4 flakkers before EVERY brawler was dead... Thats a 50 to 4 ratio. Hrm.
We are obviously thinking different things here guys... I will agree with bigSteve that brawlers could use a SMALL nerf (Make them slower maybe)... But there is absolutely no reason to do this nerf to brawlers. EMP spiders are already useless (yes, they are. I never build them anymore. I knew they would be when I saw the nerf changes. Caydr, i'm afraid you have this tendency to overnerf things into oblivion sometimes =(.).
Ah well. Thats all i'm going to say on this topic. Maybe i'll just stay at version 1.35 of AA for awhile and skip 1.40 if it stays like this. flakkers do NOT need a damage boost against gunships. Air is already crappy enough, rapiers/brawlers are really the only thing left and your taking them away... Giving flakkers the 10% range boost may be ok, since that will allow you to make a WIDER area of your base impervious...all those changes together? I'll pass.
-Drexion
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Forboding Angel
- Evolution RTS Developer
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number 1 I didn't run any tests in particular
#2 I the version that caydr sent me to test (to my knowledge did not have increased aoe. I didn't even know that 1.4 is out, so news to me.
3# brawlers have always been fucktard units. They should not be used as base busters. Try using bombers? then send in brawlers.
#2 I the version that caydr sent me to test (to my knowledge did not have increased aoe. I didn't even know that 1.4 is out, so news to me.
3# brawlers have always been fucktard units. They should not be used as base busters. Try using bombers? then send in brawlers.
Yep totally agree with drex 200% after the test we conducted,
Just watched a game on pathways and it showed how effective level 1 anti air can be against bralwers 6 jethros beat off 2 brawlers, mix them with flak and you have a potent anti brawler combination.
So thats level 1 vs level 2 with about the same cost in metal
Just watched a game on pathways and it showed how effective level 1 anti air can be against bralwers 6 jethros beat off 2 brawlers, mix them with flak and you have a potent anti brawler combination.
So thats level 1 vs level 2 with about the same cost in metal
Last edited by BigSteve on 14 Jan 2006, 00:06, edited 2 times in total.
I wasn't responding to you directly, Forboding...I don't have 1.40 at all, all my tests were with 1.35. I just mentioned the "results" some of the previous tests reported as bullshit since my tests had completely different results in 1.35... I can't imagine what the results would be under 1.40 but it wouldn't be pretty.
Brawlers are not base-busters in 1.35 as long as they have anti-air. I sure don't use them to charge positions defended by flakkers, its a waste of resources (as my tests should show). You suggest using bombers? Good luck with that, some sam-missile sites or anti-bomber turrets do wonders against those =D. The more I think about it, the more I think I won't go to 1.40... If I wasn't lazy, i'd take the 1.35 AA version and release my own version of caydr's upgrades...without the brawler messup =p. Shouldn't be too hard to do, simply get every version he puts out and change a few brawler numbers around. Hmmm... I could call it the "UAAA" for "Useful air AA"... heh. But like I said, I'm too lazy =) I'll just stick with 1.35 for awhile.
-Drexion
Brawlers are not base-busters in 1.35 as long as they have anti-air. I sure don't use them to charge positions defended by flakkers, its a waste of resources (as my tests should show). You suggest using bombers? Good luck with that, some sam-missile sites or anti-bomber turrets do wonders against those =D. The more I think about it, the more I think I won't go to 1.40... If I wasn't lazy, i'd take the 1.35 AA version and release my own version of caydr's upgrades...without the brawler messup =p. Shouldn't be too hard to do, simply get every version he puts out and change a few brawler numbers around. Hmmm... I could call it the "UAAA" for "Useful air AA"... heh. But like I said, I'm too lazy =) I'll just stick with 1.35 for awhile.
-Drexion
Steve, if you think the viper is evil... try playing a map with water on it... you can do that with a rocket ship like the ranger... and you get almost double the range of the viper... but way more potency....
Also the storm and Rocko can do this as well... you cannot, absolutely cannot allow highly accurate weapons to go into a game without the burnblow tag or they will be FPS'ed to deadly effect...
All weapons ought to have burnblow=1; in their file.. I they do in FF..
this tag makes the weapon automatically detonate at max range regardless of whether it hits somthing or not... and will not mess up balance at all...
Also the storm and Rocko can do this as well... you cannot, absolutely cannot allow highly accurate weapons to go into a game without the burnblow tag or they will be FPS'ed to deadly effect...
All weapons ought to have burnblow=1; in their file.. I they do in FF..
this tag makes the weapon automatically detonate at max range regardless of whether it hits somthing or not... and will not mess up balance at all...
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
He reduced the power of level one bombers to make the difference between level 1 and level 2 bombers more noticable. Level one bombers were much more cost effective weapons last version around.
Damn, hope gunships are still worthwhile..massive nerf, no cost change.
I'll have to see how this one plays.
Damn, hope gunships are still worthwhile..massive nerf, no cost change.
I'll have to see how this one plays.
Code: Select all
1.35 --> 1.4
Forged variant missing scripts fixed
Mercury/Screamer range reduced to 2500 (3200)
Thunder/Shadow damage per bomb reduced to 175 (200)
Fixed Mercury/Screamer damage vs. gunships
Kbots are now able to move in water as deep as -20
(-12)
Vehicles are now able to move in water as deep as
-10 (-12)
Mechs are now able to move in water as deep as -20
(-12)
"Tiny" movementclass units are now able to move in
water as deep as -5 (-12)
"Shiva" walking animation fixed
10% increase to flak range
50% reduction to gunship damage vs. commanders
5% reduction to gunship health
10% reduction to gunship movement
Advanced fusion reactors' health increased by 20%
Standard fusion reactors' health increased by 50%
Core moho geothermal script error on explosion fixed
Krow script error on explosion fixed
Increased weapon damage versus "raider"-type units
abolished
Annihilator, Penetrator, Doomsday Machine primary
weapon are now all set to target non-air
exclusively
Moho metal extractor maxslope increased to 20
Arm EMP Spider cost reduced to 186 (216), HP
increased to 750 (650), maxvelocity increased to
2.65 (2.53)
Morty metal cost increased to 191 (171)
Morty HP reduced to 820 (850)
Necro, Rector workertime increased
Rapier missile velocity increased
Rapier AoE increased to 96 (64)
Gator, AK weapon strength increased 7%
Mobile flak reload rate set to 0.75 (1.0)
Stationary flak reload rate set to 0.55 (0.6)
Epoch flak reload rate set to 0.55 (0.6)http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/ta-a ... p?download