Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46

Peekaboom · Post by **Peekaboom** » 25 Apr 2006, 05:00

If someone has already taken the middle of altored divide, built annihilators, and had enough time to make cruise missile launchers, then chances are they are going to win the game. Cruise missiles help make the proc fest games end quicker when essentially victory has already been decided. For this reason i think they are perfectly legitamte. If you can't destroy the cruise missile launcher then it goes to show your even more screwed and already going to loose.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Apr 2006, 05:41

MR.D wrote:You guys all say "Just attack it", well when a cruise is behind 1 or more annihilators and even light defences added in on that, it becomes quite clear that its just not going to happen when the enemy no longer has to build defences and can just focus on units.

If you try to advance, he can just cruise your units 1 time and destroy all of them or weaken them substancially so that his defences are 100% effective with no losses.

1 Cruise will decimate Hlt's, nearly destroy Annihilators, and takes 2-3 shots depending on HP(on experience gain) to kill a commander.

Okay, great. So his CM launcher is behind multiple Annihilators, with light defences as icing on the cake. You can't Bertha them. You can't use L3 units + swarms to crack it.

Now, by your own argument, 1 CM will blow up any light defences he has and nearly destroy an Annihilator. You thus have an easy solution to this problem: quickly build some CMs of your own (if you're winning, your economy is equal or superior), blast his defence line, then attack.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 25 Apr 2006, 09:10

Egarwaen wrote:
MR.D wrote:You guys all say "Just attack it", well when a cruise is behind 1 or more annihilators and even light defences added in on that, it becomes quite clear that its just not going to happen when the enemy no longer has to build defences and can just focus on units.

If you try to advance, he can just cruise your units 1 time and destroy all of them or weaken them substancially so that his defences are 100% effective with no losses.

1 Cruise will decimate Hlt's, nearly destroy Annihilators, and takes 2-3 shots depending on HP(on experience gain) to kill a commander.
Okay, great. So his CM launcher is behind multiple Annihilators, with light defences as icing on the cake. You can't Bertha them. You can't use L3 units + swarms to crack it.

Now, by your own argument, 1 CM will blow up any light defences he has and nearly destroy an Annihilator. You thus have an easy solution to this problem: quickly build some CMs of your own (if you're winning, your economy is equal or superior), blast his defence line, then attack.

I support this message. I've done it, in fact... and I've countered it. Cruise missiles do not break the game, they add in another- seldom used... factor.

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 25 Apr 2006, 09:15

Archangel of Death wrote:The reason Caydr made them untargetable by anti's is because even when they were targetable, they just moved to fast to be shot down, so the anti-nuke just wasted a shot that did nothing.

And then people saw that their cruise missile's weren't targeted by anti-nukes in the changelog and thought "Hey! I can use these against people without them getting shot down!" when infact they already could, but with the added advantage of making their opponent waste an anti-nuke.

make cruisemissles slower, or anti's faster.... ??

NOiZE · Post by **NOiZE** » 25 Apr 2006, 11:14

And after the AK's Aiming have been fixed they could do with some less firepower

Dr.InfernO · Post by **Dr.InfernO** » 25 Apr 2006, 11:19

maybe add a seperate cruise missle defence. Or let the defector shield work on those cruise missels.

Kixxe · Post by **Kixxe** » 25 Apr 2006, 11:30

Make Crusie missles half the damage, intercebtebole and give em a RoF where 2 of em emteys a Anti nuke.

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 25 Apr 2006, 12:27

Making cruise missles weaker on dmg makes them useless (they cost to much).
Making the range shorter makes them useless, the build time is to high to muild it at your frontline.

Making them interceptable doesn't make them useless, but softens their power somewhat. You can build them behind mountains and/or other opject. A point of defence and you're done. (though in the buildtime and cost, you could create an army big enough...)

If there is a problem with the speed in order to intercept it. Indded, change the speeds.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 25 Apr 2006, 13:41

Peekaboom wrote:If someone has already taken the middle of altored divide, built annihilators, and had enough time to make cruise missile launchers, then chances are they are going to win the game. Cruise missiles help make the proc fest games end quicker when essentially victory has already been decided. For this reason i think they are perfectly legitamte. If you can't destroy the cruise missile launcher then it goes to show your even more screwed and already going to loose.

i agree, CMs are good to finish of porcers when u allready have mapcontrol and game drags along.

When porcer gets +15kE, +200M and has whole base covered with BB',s Annis and deflectors CM's are THE only way to kill them off. Only CM's arent deflect by deflector (good thing).

Whats the poing of having 80% of map when i cant kill super porcers off? CM gives and edge to player with mapcontrol and they should be left as they are (i rarely use them as i preffer units first but somtimes they save a day by killing heavy defense.)

Min3mat · Post by **Min3mat** » 25 Apr 2006, 13:44

cruise missiles are fine.
if he has constucted anni, cruise missle (VERY expensive) AND light defenses as well as the m/e needed to make a missile then i bet you he hasn't got a antinuke and if he has scout it. he will only be able to have one, either protecting his main base and resouces, or protecting his cruise missile. kill economy, cruise missiles become useless, surprise attack his base and circle rond to hit the cruise from behind, nuke the cruise and defenses there, reclaim them and make your own stuff. use berthas or jammed artillery and scouts. think!
owh and NOiZE stop playing metal maps

cruise missiles are fine on normal maps IMO

MR.D · Post by **MR.D** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:28

The point I'm trying to make is mostly about the smaller maps, that are 8x8 up to 12x12 where every corner of the map is within range of a cruise missle built anywhere.

At least Bertha's can be shielded against, Nukes can be intercepted, and Cruise missles pwn everything, its only fair for you ppl arguing against this because its your only strategy, rush Cruise missles = win game.

This is just like the Slasher/Samson, Tremor, Flash, Cloaked SUMO and any other unit that has been whored without balence to the point of ruining the average game.

It needs some balence, because its too powerfull and way too cheap.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:39

MR.D wrote:The point I'm trying to make is mostly about the smaller maps, that are 8x8 up to 12x12 where every corner of the map is within range of a cruise missle built anywhere.

Why is your opponent even able to get cruise missiles on a map like this? Maybe I'm still too new, but I've never had a game on an 8x8 go long enough for anyone to get Cruise Missiles, unless it's a metal map or a porc map. Most 8x8 maps I've played on get decided by the L1 war.

I have seen CMs used on Green Comet (16x12), but they were largely irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

Perhaps if you gave us some map names and replays it might help make your point?

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:43

Egarwaen wrote:
MR.D wrote:The point I'm trying to make is mostly about the smaller maps, that are 8x8 up to 12x12 where every corner of the map is within range of a cruise missle built anywhere.
Why is your opponent even able to get cruise missiles on a map like this? Maybe I'm still too new, but I've never had a game on an 8x8 go long enough for anyone to get Cruise Missiles, unless it's a metal map or a porc map. Most 8x8 maps I've played on get decided by the L1 war.

I have seen CMs used on Green Comet (16x12), but they were largely irrelevant to the outcome of the game.

Perhaps if you gave us some map names and replays it might help make your point?

Speedmetal

aftar evry1 porcs tehere bases, it becums a CM rush, omfg...
plz nerf CMs, tehy r unbalanced on Speedmetal plz? kthxbye

Zenka · Post by **Zenka** » 25 Apr 2006, 17:49

Norf, a special version of AA is secretly loaded when playing SM.
(and a special cruize missle nerf for Metal Heck)

submarine · Post by **submarine** » 25 Apr 2006, 18:59

FizWizz wrote: Speedmetal
aftar evry1 porcs tehere bases, it becums a CM rush, omfg...
plz nerf CMs, tehy r unbalanced on Speedmetal plz? kthxbye

speedmertal is no "real" ta-spring map at all :) so we should not take mteal maps into account...

FizWizz · Post by **FizWizz** » 25 Apr 2006, 19:03

I'm just trying to say in a roundabout way that unit balance/potency does change from map to map by jumping to the extreme end of it.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Apr 2006, 19:10

FizWizz wrote:I'm just trying to say in a roundabout way that unit balance/potency does change from map to map by jumping to the extreme end of it.

Which is why I asked what maps he was talking about.

ginekolog · Post by **ginekolog** » 25 Apr 2006, 19:11

and some ppl are actually foolish enough that they would nerf underpowerd CM JUST because it can be overpowerd on rare and boring metal maps or when total noobs/porcers are playing?

get real, game should be balaced for type of game that most ppl play, that is ~ 1v1 or 2v2, normal metal. And in those games CM's are baisiclly underpowerd.

Egarwaen · Post by **Egarwaen** » 25 Apr 2006, 20:17

Let's let Mr. D tell us what maps he's talking about and maybe provide some replays before we call him a "n00b/porcer".

wizard8873 · Post by **wizard8873** » 25 Apr 2006, 22:22

MR.D wrote:The point I'm trying to make is mostly about the smaller maps, that are 8x8 up to 12x12 where every corner of the map is within range of a cruise missle built anywhere.

At least Bertha's can be shielded against, Nukes can be intercepted, and Cruise missles pwn everything, its only fair for you ppl arguing against this because its your only strategy, rush Cruise missles = win game.

This is just like the Slasher/Samson, Tremor, Flash, Cloaked SUMO and any other unit that has been whored without balence to the point of ruining the average game.

It needs some balence, because its too powerfull and way too cheap.

i disagree. i had a game between me and killerd on small divide. i was pushed back to the bottom, mostly around the left corner. all of our attacking positions kept changing so we had no real front and he moved towards the center and dug in a bit. i kept attacking from back and failed to realise his entire back of the center was ungaurded. well, he built up a cruise missile and started attacking, beginning with my lvl2 kbot lab. one shot just hurt it a lot. it did not kill it. he just kept shooting it at different spots in my base.

he kept attacking me but i just spread my base out and tried to rebuild. i held in there strong until my comm was killed. he attacked with mavericks and they killed off my units so i sent my comm to take them out but ran out of energy. by the time i could get my moho metal maker off, my comm was dead and i had lost the game.

i think it was a great move he pulled off since neither of us could get a decisive blow off during the game.

here's the replay if you want to see it for yourself
http://fileuniverse.com/?p=showitem&ID=2992

IMO, cruise missiles are just fine. just because a person gets them up doesn't mean that they will win. they take a while to build, have a small AOE, and don't deal too much damage.

on maps that small, if your enemy can get one up, it's your own fault. most players generally concentrate on attack since it is fast paced.

Spring RTS Engine

Absolute Annihilation: Spring 1.46