P.U.R.E. 0.55
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Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Oh, and GMN, yeah, if you wanna build a radar, that's great. I'll get to it sometime Monday.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Like Zerg Drones except it only turns in to pure awesome?
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Guessmyname
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Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
I have no idea - never played starcraft.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
I think that it must be something like Command & Conquer base builders. (vehicles that morphed into building bases irreversibly). However in C&C you could only build buildings close to the building bases, what made that usefull... will tough something like that be usefull in a mod where you can build anywhere and winhout worring about supply routes? :)
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
That mechanic was... interesting in AOE3. I liked that there were units that you had to requisition from your home city, that you could never build locally, but I disliked how they were limited in number - once you played all the "factory" cards in your deck, you couldn't build any more, which was annoying. We'll see how it works here.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
The thing about the card system was that it created a very weird gameplay for serious players, because if you didn't stack the cards correctly, you were probably hosed, no matter how good you were.
It wasn't the limited numbers that defeated it, imo, it was the timing on each card- you couldn't just play them and see results immediately, and the different cards had different timings, so some were a lot more powerful than others, despite their in-game effects, simply because of time. For example, in midgame as certain factions you could play a lot of free materials cards, trade them for money, and use that money to create a lot of instant havoc. DRB showed me how he was able to do ridiculous things with the Russians, simply because he could flood so many Strelots at certain points of the game, among other things.
For certain factions, certain combos of cards were potential game-winners, regardless of how well they'd played up to that point- if they could survive to the appropriate Age, then they might be able to reverse their fortunes through clever pre-game stacking.
It made for a messy, chaotic system, where good players had to stack their cards very carefully to succeed.
Personally, I didn't care for that aspect... but in most respects, it wasn't much different from a more-traditional upgrade system, which usually has the same flaws.
I've been considering implementing an upgrade system, where it's purely about accumulating resources- you get them, you spend them, and voila, you can buy the upgrade, right now. That way, it's about the cost in resources otherwise used for unit production vs. the benefits, and not about timing stacks of upgrades during the course of a game, a pattern that almost always leads to players picking a single upgrade path- whatever is most efficient. Dunno whether I'll get to that or not, for this version.
As for the MegaConstructors... they'll almost certainly be built by an Advance Base, like they are now. The chief questions are going to have to be about cost vs. benefit, basically... and that's going to take awhile to sort out.
It wasn't the limited numbers that defeated it, imo, it was the timing on each card- you couldn't just play them and see results immediately, and the different cards had different timings, so some were a lot more powerful than others, despite their in-game effects, simply because of time. For example, in midgame as certain factions you could play a lot of free materials cards, trade them for money, and use that money to create a lot of instant havoc. DRB showed me how he was able to do ridiculous things with the Russians, simply because he could flood so many Strelots at certain points of the game, among other things.
For certain factions, certain combos of cards were potential game-winners, regardless of how well they'd played up to that point- if they could survive to the appropriate Age, then they might be able to reverse their fortunes through clever pre-game stacking.
It made for a messy, chaotic system, where good players had to stack their cards very carefully to succeed.
Personally, I didn't care for that aspect... but in most respects, it wasn't much different from a more-traditional upgrade system, which usually has the same flaws.
I've been considering implementing an upgrade system, where it's purely about accumulating resources- you get them, you spend them, and voila, you can buy the upgrade, right now. That way, it's about the cost in resources otherwise used for unit production vs. the benefits, and not about timing stacks of upgrades during the course of a game, a pattern that almost always leads to players picking a single upgrade path- whatever is most efficient. Dunno whether I'll get to that or not, for this version.
As for the MegaConstructors... they'll almost certainly be built by an Advance Base, like they are now. The chief questions are going to have to be about cost vs. benefit, basically... and that's going to take awhile to sort out.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
I would like to announce the P.U.R.E. supports objects that may be captured, that are regular in distribution and non-random, takes existing Units and height variation into consideration, should be reasonably accessible by players regardless of the map's original heightmap, and does not use the metal map as their basis, allowing Overmind to continue to play somewhat like OTA, whilst allowing Resistance to play differently.
This code may be overridden by a map file, allowing for customized maps to support P.U.R.E., if a mapper defines customized locations, but will operate without it, if no such customized locations exist.
The only real problem I have left on that front is water, and I haven't decided whether to do land-bridges in water situations, skip generation of points for these areas, or to just create islands, but meh, Rome wasn't built in a day.
This code may be overridden by a map file, allowing for customized maps to support P.U.R.E., if a mapper defines customized locations, but will operate without it, if no such customized locations exist.
The only real problem I have left on that front is water, and I haven't decided whether to do land-bridges in water situations, skip generation of points for these areas, or to just create islands, but meh, Rome wasn't built in a day.
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Guessmyname
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- Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Why did that read like a legal document...?
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Sorry, I wrote that entirely in coder-think, didn't I?
Basically, gamers, P.U.R.E. has things that you capture, as a Resistance player. If you don't capture them, you lose the game- Resistance doesn't play anything like OTA in this respect.
These objects are the devices created by the Ancients before the Fall (yes, yes, more backstory that I have not explained, I know, I know), designed originally to supply the wants of the populations who used to live on these planets.
The Resistance has discovered that they're still operating, and that humans may use them. Their Engineering Teams have developed ways convert them into rough-and-ready sources of supplies and equipment for their armies, since they generally cannot bring enough munitions to supply their armies for full-scale war to planets the Overmind once controlled.
They're scattered around the map, and you have to find them and capture them to get resources.
Overmind cannot use them (although they can reclaim them, or destroy them...), so the two sides play very, very differently. Resistance players must explore the map, to find the functioning devices. Overmind players must build mines, etc., just like they do in 0.55.
Basically, gamers, P.U.R.E. has things that you capture, as a Resistance player. If you don't capture them, you lose the game- Resistance doesn't play anything like OTA in this respect.
These objects are the devices created by the Ancients before the Fall (yes, yes, more backstory that I have not explained, I know, I know), designed originally to supply the wants of the populations who used to live on these planets.
The Resistance has discovered that they're still operating, and that humans may use them. Their Engineering Teams have developed ways convert them into rough-and-ready sources of supplies and equipment for their armies, since they generally cannot bring enough munitions to supply their armies for full-scale war to planets the Overmind once controlled.
They're scattered around the map, and you have to find them and capture them to get resources.
Overmind cannot use them (although they can reclaim them, or destroy them...), so the two sides play very, very differently. Resistance players must explore the map, to find the functioning devices. Overmind players must build mines, etc., just like they do in 0.55.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Sounds like a MASSIVE advantage for Overmind raids, just wreck the capture points. The resistance wouldn't be able to gain more resources from map control while it couldn't destroy the res depots the overmind uses.
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Guessmyname
- Posts: 3301
- Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 21:07
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Yeah, the Overmind can just destroy any in their territory, thus denying any economic advantage the Resistance would get for invading their territory. It would be better to make the artifacts invincible until captured / active
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clericvash
- Posts: 1394
- Joined: 05 Oct 2004, 01:05
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
You have no idea how badly i await to play this game. It will pretty much replace SupCom for me!
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
@KDR_11K / GMN: Good points there. Here are my thoughts about it.
Without giving too much away, I'll just say that, while I am certainly not vouching for game-balance yet, it's a sword that cuts two ways, and Resistance gets some very significant early-game advantages- among other things, the Advance Base is quite capable of destroying an early raiding force pretty much by itself, as of right now.
And meh, if that doesn't work out, or is impossible to balance, I can do as GMN suggests, and make them practically invulnerable until they've been captured.
Might be a good plan, but I think for now I'll let Overmind waste time destroying the ones on their territory (they don't die super-easily), if they're willing to let a Resistance player gain that much military strength in the meantime... it makes playing as Overmind rather interesting, giving players some divergent choices...
Without giving too much away, I'll just say that, while I am certainly not vouching for game-balance yet, it's a sword that cuts two ways, and Resistance gets some very significant early-game advantages- among other things, the Advance Base is quite capable of destroying an early raiding force pretty much by itself, as of right now.
And meh, if that doesn't work out, or is impossible to balance, I can do as GMN suggests, and make them practically invulnerable until they've been captured.
Might be a good plan, but I think for now I'll let Overmind waste time destroying the ones on their territory (they don't die super-easily), if they're willing to let a Resistance player gain that much military strength in the meantime... it makes playing as Overmind rather interesting, giving players some divergent choices...
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
But would the advance base prevent the overmind from turning all res points into scorched earth?
Of course the OM player wouldn't destroy the ones close to him first, the enemy won't take those anyway. He'll make sure to start with the ones the enemy will want to claim. Unless the resist player will become independent of res sites after the early game the OM player can afford a war of attrition, just has to keep killing the res sites one by one.
Of course the OM player wouldn't destroy the ones close to him first, the enemy won't take those anyway. He'll make sure to start with the ones the enemy will want to claim. Unless the resist player will become independent of res sites after the early game the OM player can afford a war of attrition, just has to keep killing the res sites one by one.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
One presumes this is the function of the cubes?
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Of course not! Wouldn't be much of a game, if the Resistance could just expect to gain all points, and lose nothing along the way, or if Overmind could just expect to wipe out the Resistance's potential income easily. And if the Overmind doesn't raid, they're hosed, against an aggressive Resistance player.But would the advance base prevent the overmind from turning all res points into scorched earth?
Expect fierce fights over the captured objects on the borders, during early game.
In the long run, Resistance eventually is freed from the points, just as Overmind is freed from Miners, although the scaling and timing are a little different. Hence the "doom shoes" and a metalmaker, which I haven't bothered showing off.
In short, it's not a simplistic battle of attrition, although the Overmind certainly has every incentive to raid.
And, of course, Resistance players will want to counter-raid the Overmind's Miners as well as defend their territory. Right now, if anything, I'm more worried about Overmind getting rushed out than I am about Resistance- the whole 3 Miners, 1 Fusion rules for building a LandFactory without stalling mean the Overmind has quite a delay before it can be expected to field any combat units at all.
Resistance doesn't have that problem, but is constrained by the fact that they have to send Engineering Teams hither and yon, to find enough supplies to mount an effective offensive. In short, each side can be expected to play very, very differently, and each side has different balance concerns. Game-balancing it will be tricky, but I am quite confident that it can be done- it already plays quite nicely, in early testing.
One presumes correctly.One presumes this is the function of the cubes?
Originally, I was hoping to build a lot of fake buildings, that looked like different things that might plausibly have these miraculous technological functions- little factories, futuristic strip-malls, etc., to reinforce the idea that the Resistance is attempting to re-claim and "purify" worlds that the Overmind holds in its electronic grasp. I don't think I have time to do that many art assets before this release, so for now, they're futuristic objects that look pretty, basically.
I'm still weighing whether to use the World Builder art assets for that stuff, but probably not, I'd rather that they were presented as generic buildings to populate World Builder cities with, instead of being intrinsically tied to P.U.R.E. in some way.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Excellent. I supposed that may be their purpose from the start. I rock. 
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Yeah, I didn't figure I could hide it much longer, and meh, it's a cool feature, imo.
For those of you out there, who wonder what this might look like, in terms of distribution, etc., here's a demo:
Please note, this doesn't reflect final gameplay, etc., etc., etc. But it shows how the code's analyzing the map, placing the objects, and arriving at a reasonably even distribution for all players, regardless of the terrain. I'm not claiming this is perfect, or whatever, but it's reasonable distribution, imo, and it's somewhat randomized, keeping the element of exploration intact.
For those of you out there, who wonder what this might look like, in terms of distribution, etc., here's a demo:
Please note, this doesn't reflect final gameplay, etc., etc., etc. But it shows how the code's analyzing the map, placing the objects, and arriving at a reasonably even distribution for all players, regardless of the terrain. I'm not claiming this is perfect, or whatever, but it's reasonable distribution, imo, and it's somewhat randomized, keeping the element of exploration intact.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
You mentioned that this could be overridden by a file in the map file. Is it possible to output the results of your default algorithm, both so that one could easily see the format, and tweak positions they don't like?
Just a thought, not that I make or modify maps.
Just a thought, not that I make or modify maps.
Re: P.U.R.E. 0.55
Short answer is, "not really".Is it possible to output the results of your default algorithm, both so that one could easily see the format, and tweak positions they don't like?
Mappers can, if they wish, design static locations for the objects, and turn the code that places them off, basically.
I'm not really convinced that there's much demand for that, tbh. We'll see, after World Builder is available- it really depends, imo, on how many mappers respond favorably to using it, and learning the simple Lua required to work with it effectively.