Why exactly do we need MORE anti-air defense? (i.e. some super lvl2 kbot anti air unit)
how can we be discussing ways of increasing the effectiveness and problems with late game air cover and be proposing even more options to deal with air? Besides, there are flak trucks, missile trucks, anti-air kbots, panthers, etc...
On another note, has anyone noticed that air planes (generally bombers) don't seem to follow their orders when you tell them to bomb a specific target. I've tried setting them to hold fire, etc...they just seem to bomb whatever they feel like, this is especially true for the Liches.
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wizard8873
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just because you have AA tanks, doesnt mean everyone uses them. i'm a kbot player and i find myself forced to go to tanks late in game to avoid being taken out by brawlers when i attack. air is great, even late in the game if a person knows how to use it. there are lvl1 AA bots but how effective are they against brawlers or crows? not very, they die too easily.Peekaboom wrote:Why exactly do we need MORE anti-air defense? (i.e. some super lvl2 kbot anti air unit)
how can we be discussing ways of increasing the effectiveness and problems with late game air cover and be proposing even more options to deal with air? Besides, there are flak trucks, missile trucks, anti-air kbots, panthers, etc...
Because you have no mobile AA option if you go L2 Kbots right now. This means that if you want to protect your assault force, you also need L2 Vehicles or L2 Air. It's not going to be any more "super" than the Phalanx/Copperhead.Peekaboom wrote:Why exactly do we need MORE anti-air defense? (i.e. some super lvl2 kbot anti air unit)
There doesn't actually seem to be much of a problem with this, unless you expect to be able to use air alone to wipe out your opponent's entire base. Advanced Bombers can usually get off at least one payload, which will punch an opening in pretty much any defensive line. Stealth Fighters don't lose effectiveness, and can still intercept enemy air attacks as well as always. Gunships do, but that's to be expected, as they're swarm units and raiders. Sabot Gunships may not (and if they do, Caydr's expressed interest in flak-proofing them), and Krows and Liches still work as well as always.how can we be discussing ways of increasing the effectiveness and problems with late game air cover and be proposing even more options to deal with air? Besides, there are flak trucks, missile trucks, anti-air kbots, panthers, etc...
Missile kbots and trucks fare very poorly against L2 air. Flak trucks are good, but you can't build them from a KBot lab. I don't believe Panthers are any better at AA than missile tricks.
Isn't this an engine bug, already covered in another thread?On another note, has anyone noticed that air planes (generally bombers) don't seem to follow their orders when you tell them to bomb a specific target. I've tried setting them to hold fire, etc...they just seem to bomb whatever they feel like, this is especially true for the Liches.
I've never had that problem to be honest, I always have my air factory build with HOLD POSITION as the general move order.
Planes behave perfectly even on fire at will if you group them, have them holding position, then tell them where to go.
If you have them on Roam, or maneuver, then you start to get problems with airplanes doing their own thing, dropping bombs too early and on the first target they see ect ect..
With bombers, I select the group and give specific attack orders to hit 1 target, then alternate the target once I get some LOS and while I still have bombers left, never patroll with bombers ever, they're just too slow to react as they require a passover typically.
I have my fighters partolling my forward lines and set to HOLD POSITION, if there isn't anti-air threat on that path they stay on course untill a target passes their patrol line, then they chase/shoot it down and return back on the patrol path.
Planes behave perfectly even on fire at will if you group them, have them holding position, then tell them where to go.
If you have them on Roam, or maneuver, then you start to get problems with airplanes doing their own thing, dropping bombs too early and on the first target they see ect ect..
With bombers, I select the group and give specific attack orders to hit 1 target, then alternate the target once I get some LOS and while I still have bombers left, never patroll with bombers ever, they're just too slow to react as they require a passover typically.
I have my fighters partolling my forward lines and set to HOLD POSITION, if there isn't anti-air threat on that path they stay on course untill a target passes their patrol line, then they chase/shoot it down and return back on the patrol path.
lvl 1 anti air kbots actually beat brawlers 2-1.
just an fyi for you all.
did tests a few months back i think with Denied, 2 anti air kbots take out 1 brawler.
also, you can swarm with brawlers etc, they still work quite effectively as anti brawler.
now bombers... they are harder for lvl 1 to handle.
just an fyi for you all.
did tests a few months back i think with Denied, 2 anti air kbots take out 1 brawler.
also, you can swarm with brawlers etc, they still work quite effectively as anti brawler.
now bombers... they are harder for lvl 1 to handle.
I think I'd prefer to leave level 2 anti air kbots out of AA. I like having more differentiation between kbots and vehicles rather than less. More differentiation makes the strategic choice of which factory to build more interesting.
Of course it doesn't seem a logical distinction that you can put an anti air weapon on wheels, but not on legs....
With the blades, can they be differentiated by making them immune to area of effect? That is a flak cannon will only hit one of them, and any other blade caught in the area of a flak cannon explosion will take no damage. Or would that be impossible with the engine.
Combine that with 0 damage from the explosion of other planes, to make them the ultimate swarmer, with defences only ever able to take them down one at a time. Normal brawlers would then be relegated to small squads for hit and run and raid. Also if blades are hard to take down by anti air then they may become the plane of choice for gaining line of sight on a heavily defended base for targeting very long range weapons.
Another option for blades may be to make them more effective against level 3 mechs.
Of course it doesn't seem a logical distinction that you can put an anti air weapon on wheels, but not on legs....
With the blades, can they be differentiated by making them immune to area of effect? That is a flak cannon will only hit one of them, and any other blade caught in the area of a flak cannon explosion will take no damage. Or would that be impossible with the engine.
Combine that with 0 damage from the explosion of other planes, to make them the ultimate swarmer, with defences only ever able to take them down one at a time. Normal brawlers would then be relegated to small squads for hit and run and raid. Also if blades are hard to take down by anti air then they may become the plane of choice for gaining line of sight on a heavily defended base for targeting very long range weapons.
Another option for blades may be to make them more effective against level 3 mechs.
But this isn't just differentiation, this is a fundamental, necessary role that isn't filled by the level 2 KBot factory.jellyman wrote:I think I'd prefer to leave level 2 anti air kbots out of AA. I like having more differentiation between kbots and vehicles rather than less. More differentiation makes the strategic choice of which factory to build more interesting.
As for L1 AA KBots, I'm not surprised that they beat Brawlers if they outnumber them, seeing as they're totally useless against any non-aircraft. There'd be no point in building ground-based dedicated AA units if they didn't win cost-for-cost against air. You'd always be better off building aircraft!
Though I do have to wonder if this still holds when there's, say, 10 Brawlers and 20 clustered KBots, as the KBots will probably waste a lot of fire, while the Brawlers can take advantage of their (IIRC) inaccurate weapons.
Good to know! I'll try this out next game I play and see how it works. You leave the firing mode to FIRE AT WILL STILL though right?
MR.D wrote:I've never had that problem to be honest, I always have my air factory build with HOLD POSITION as the general move order.
Planes behave perfectly even on fire at will if you group them, have them holding position, then tell them where to go.
If you have them on Roam, or maneuver, then you start to get problems with airplanes doing their own thing, dropping bombs too early and on the first target they see ect ect..
With bombers, I select the group and give specific attack orders to hit 1 target, then alternate the target once I get some LOS and while I still have bombers left, never patroll with bombers ever, they're just too slow to react as they require a passover typically.
I have my fighters partolling my forward lines and set to HOLD POSITION, if there isn't anti-air threat on that path they stay on course untill a target passes their patrol line, then they chase/shoot it down and return back on the patrol path.
PROBLEM WITH CRUISE MISSILES!
Has anyone noticed that cruise missiles regularly do not fire when you tell them to? This seems to be more of a problem the closer your target is to their maximum range. Is there something I'm missing? Do they need line of sight, will they not fire over your own units? I've tried lots of different arrangements but sometimes they just don't work.
Has anyone noticed that cruise missiles regularly do not fire when you tell them to? This seems to be more of a problem the closer your target is to their maximum range. Is there something I'm missing? Do they need line of sight, will they not fire over your own units? I've tried lots of different arrangements but sometimes they just don't work.
A cruize missles doesn't nee a line of sight on the target. but it sometimes doesn't fire when a too many objects are in the way (dispite the fact tha the missle flies). Try building the launcher on a high place, that usually fixes it.Peekaboom wrote:PROBLEM WITH CRUISE MISSILES!
Has anyone noticed that cruise missiles regularly do not fire when you tell them to? This seems to be more of a problem the closer your target is to their maximum range. Is there something I'm missing? Do they need line of sight, will they not fire over your own units? I've tried lots of different arrangements but sometimes they just don't work.
I just happen not to use tanks that often. Everybody else does, and it's hysterical to take somebody with a hover-tank force instead.Egarwaen wrote:That's because most ARM players I've encountered admit that they're OP, but don't want to abuse them. Others simply aren't aware of the imbalance.neddiedrow wrote:I've never seen that. If anything, people stop running flashes about six minutes in...