Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released

Drone_Fragger · Post by **Drone_Fragger** » 17 Jul 2006, 21:28

and then be outproduced by someone who does?

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 17 Jul 2006, 22:12

Then destroy that someone's frontline mohos. He's working with the same consraints you are.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 18 Jul 2006, 03:52

I believe level two mexes are fine as they are, they mesh well with the E&E style of gameplay.

Now, level two water mexes are an interesting idea, but I don't support them. Water has been designed as a support branch, like air... and level two water mexes would require, logically, an expanded water buildtree and another water constructor.

Forboding Angel · Post by **Forboding Angel** » 18 Jul 2006, 15:56

neddiedrow wrote:I believe level two mexes are fine as they are, they mesh well with the E&E style of gameplay.

Now, level two water mexes are an interesting idea, but I don't support them. Water has been designed as a support branch, like air... and level two water mexes would require, logically, an expanded water buildtree and another water constructor.

I 100% completely agree.

Scikar · Post by **Scikar** » 25 Jul 2006, 03:28

I'm curious about the DPS of the different unit types. Given that missile units have an advantage over plasma or cannon units in terms of better handling of steep terrain, all units can fire at once, area effect damage, and ability to hit aircraft, is their DPS significantly less than plasma/cannon? I know the missile units themselves have slightly less HP, but not that much less...

Pxtl · Post by **Pxtl** » 25 Jul 2006, 04:25

Scikar wrote:I'm curious about the DPS of the different unit types. Given that missile units have an advantage over plasma or cannon units in terms of better handling of steep terrain, all units can fire at once, area effect damage, and ability to hit aircraft, is their DPS significantly less than plasma/cannon? I know the missile units themselves have slightly less HP, but not that much less...

Haven't seen the numbers, but in-game experience tells me that plasma-bots rip missile-bots to shreds.

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 25 Jul 2006, 06:18

Yes Stats wise, the arced weapon tank/bots have lower DPS than direct combat weapons, i.e. cannon/plasma DPS > missile/rocket. so in a one on one fight, a cannon take will beat a rocket tank.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 26 Jul 2006, 21:29

Which is why you make a mixed army of both Plasma/Cannon and Rocket bots/tanks. That way the direct-fire guys in front get to soak up all the damage and lay out their impressive DPS, while the rocketeers behind 'em lob missiles up and over, the way the enemy's all-plasma/cannon army can't because they have units blocking the way.

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 27 Jul 2006, 05:52

if your army is properly spread out, you should actually win the battle with plasmas only. rockets, it takes like 2-1 to kill a plasma, or something crazy like that :) maybe 1.5 rockets per plasma.

same with rocket tanks vs battle tanks.

theres a giant difference in dps, it feels like.

BUT, if the enemy isnt properly spread out, then yes, they will tear up the enemy because there hits will destroy multiple targets at once.

when properly fought with though (the battle line equivalent of other races)

, they the rocket tanks/bots sadly dont work out that well...

j5mello · Post by **j5mello** » 27 Jul 2006, 06:15

LVL 1 Weapon List:

Plasma and Cannon weapons are los direct fire weapons that are for frontine combat systems. They have the higher DPS than rockets but are beat by the specialty weapons.

The Rockets are arcing weapons with large AoE that's good for swarms and attacking over small shot blockers like lvl 2 wrecks or small hills (a la the center of ConquerorsIsle). Edit: Rockets can also perfrom decent anti air work but the dedicated weapons are much better. Also rockets can miss on occasion if the target is flying wierd or something.

SAM and AAA weapons are anti air only. SAM uses guides missiles with decent AoE. AAA is basically Flak from TA but with tweaked stats.

Specialty Weapons:

Flame weapons have shortest range but do a lot of damage. Also their shot can hit multiple targets assuming they are close together.

Laser weapons are high DPS pinpoint weapons that are good when several are concentrated on a single target. Also lasers can handle gunships of their lvl in about a 2:1 ratio with some casualties.

NOTE: Specialty weapons do extra damage to structures.

Decimator · Post by **Decimator** » 28 Jul 2006, 00:40

Keep in mind that rockets are also quite decent at attacking air. They are essentially the jack of all trades in your army. There really is nothing they are bad at.

KDR_11k · Post by **KDR_11k** » 28 Jul 2006, 06:48

What, lasers effective against buildings? That's a complete 180 from E2150 where lasers did next to nothing to structures but ate (unshielded) units for breakfast since they worked by overheating enemies and concrete doesn't conduct heat very well.

The big drawback of missiles was that they did next to no damage in E2150, anything but machineguns would own them. They also sucked against moving targets until you added tons of upgrades because they weren't guided. Have a bunch of cannon mechs run circles around a missile unit and watch it getting torn apart without getting one hit in.

(any of these may be incorrect since I played only TMP, not E2150 itself)

Zoombie · Post by **Zoombie** » 28 Jul 2006, 06:53

The moon project IS 2150, with new units and maps, for all intents and puropouses.

But I actually found rockets very good at saturation bombing enemy bases. They don't need to track stationary targets. But cannons were, overall, better then them.

KlavoHunter · Post by **KlavoHunter** » 28 Jul 2006, 07:51

j5mello wrote:SAM and AAA weapons are anti air only. SAM uses guides missiles with decent AoE. AAA is basically Flak from TA but with tweaked stats.

And a hella lot cooler noise and smokey explosion. :)

Specialty Weapons:

Flame weapons have shortest range but do a lot of damage. Also their shot can hit multiple targets assuming they are close together.

Laser weapons are high DPS pinpoint weapons that are good when several are concentrated on a single target. Also lasers can handle gunships of their lvl in about a 2:1 ratio with some casualties.

NOTE: Specialty weapons do extra damage to structures.

For quite a while I thought that Flame/Laser was *ONLY* good against structures, but I've realized my error in some recent games, where several very good players have used Flamer 'bots as a countercharge force... I advance against his main army with a line of tanks or 'bots, and he returns the favor with his own army... but moving in the front, quickly spearing into the front of my line, is about a half-dozen or more Level 1 Flamer 'bots... granted, I win, because my army is larger, but he hurts me pretty badly with those.

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 28 Jul 2006, 15:15

ive seen a flamer army used 1 time to good effect...

and surprisingly enough KAI used the army of Flamer bots, vs 10 battle tanks that were controlled by a human !

4 flamer bots charged into the battle tanks and raped them in seconds.

was amusing.

but seriously, thats the only time ive seen them "able" to be used against a human players mobile army, :)

I believe Fang was fixing that before his long ass vacation.

OOOH ALMOST FORGOT.

Cloaked units may need to be chopped down to size, OR URC given a minigun (like a minigun turret) a small cheaper turret for spreadin around its base.

The reasoning is, A URC player can rape another URC players economy while forcing the enemy to bring back units, or put up very expensive plasma turrets all over. Pretty much a lackluster option all the way around for the player.

A GD player (myself) can put up many minigun turrets cheaply, spread throughout my base, and stop most small cloaked mech raids in lvl 1.

This really puts GD at an advantage vs URC

seeing how a URC vs URC turns out, they are both running around putting a large part of their economy on expensive turrets, while countering each others cloaked units in there bases by sending more to the enemy :)

Scikar · Post by **Scikar** » 30 Jul 2006, 00:58

Journier wrote:Cloaked units may need to be chopped down to size, OR URC given a minigun (like a minigun turret) a small cheaper turret for spreadin around its base.

The reasoning is, A URC player can rape another URC players economy while forcing the enemy to bring back units, or put up very expensive plasma turrets all over. Pretty much a lackluster option all the way around for the player.

Use dragon's teeth to limit the number of ways in and out of your base, and then put turrets in the gaps.

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jul 2006, 06:18

id like to see you do this in a 1v1 on comet catcher. or a 1v1 on most any map...

Scikar · Post by **Scikar** » 30 Jul 2006, 11:36

Journier wrote:id like to see you do this in a 1v1 on comet catcher. or a 1v1 on most any map...

I don't see how it's any more difficult than placing minigun turrets all around your base no further apart than the decloak radius.

Journier · Post by **Journier** » 30 Jul 2006, 23:12

i dont lay miniguns all around my base "no further apart than the decloak radius"

i spread them out so they cover each other in firing range.

on comet catcher 12 miniguns will cover a majority of my base, the part that i care about.

Fanger · Post by **Fanger** » 31 Jul 2006, 17:48

I cannot add NI mexs that build, so some other Unique mex idea needs to be come up with. My thought atm was a emp armed mex.. although that is similiar to GD's armed mex but not the same..

Spring RTS Engine

Expand and Exterminate version 0.163 Released