Kernel Panic
Moderator: Content Developer
So, the GPL requires us to submit human-readable source code for any binary program.
But kernel panic is already distributed as source. So, it doesn't matter, much like distributing a text file or python script under the GPL.
You don't need to worry about artwork or maps either - they're much like the text files, and can be modified and reused in the program without special decompilation stuff. That's the main point of the GPL: to modify, rebuild, and redistribute the program.
What Tobi said is basically right. The "source package" will be a tarball containing the kernel panic .sd7 file, a control script saying that it depends on spring, and a "build script" that basically says "copy this file."
But kernel panic is already distributed as source. So, it doesn't matter, much like distributing a text file or python script under the GPL.
You don't need to worry about artwork or maps either - they're much like the text files, and can be modified and reused in the program without special decompilation stuff. That's the main point of the GPL: to modify, rebuild, and redistribute the program.
What Tobi said is basically right. The "source package" will be a tarball containing the kernel panic .sd7 file, a control script saying that it depends on spring, and a "build script" that basically says "copy this file."
Spring users can get the version that has just the .sd7 in .zip. I just need to rewrite its description into something less offensive.
They won't get as a playable single player, but the old version thing is probably the kind of huge ugly mess they're trying to avoid by getting a zip in the first place.
Since the installer can now install Spring, it can also uninstall Spring. I don't really know how to uninstall only what was selected during the installation. But if you tell me that is a problem, then I'll have to look into it. Now that it looks at it, it's true my uninstaller is a little dry and could have some more details and issue a warning before deleting Spring:
Looks like I even forgot the descriptions.
In KP 1.3 times, I had an installer but no uninstaller, now I have an uninstaller but it's too crude, future version will have better uninstaller. I'm basically using K.P. as an experiment to turn Spring from "Install Spring, advanced users can get mods by downloading exotic files into certain folder" into a newbie proof "Install a 'game' powered by the Spring engine". I apologize if I didn't hit the new balance between independence and dependence I'm working toward perfectly right the first time, but it's a ongoing process I can only try to achieve gradually.
How to make this clearer but not obstrusive?
I know some argues I should never under any circumstances change settings such as LuaUI or ground decals, but if I do not, then no one but fellow modders would use them, while they are great and really add something to the game. Without the autospam widget, Kernel Panic doesn't play as smoothly, turning repeat on and enqueuing a bit isn't even skill test, it just an annoying chores that would make the game feels incomplete and unadapted to the engine. As for ground decals, they make KP look 120% better without hurting anything. I thought about throwing MessageBox to warn people about LuaUI and GroundDecal, but I'm afraid long time hard core Spring players would just click without reading and then ask the same question about how to remove the tanks tracks that appeared in their BA, and so the messagebox would just be an added annoyance for everybody without solving anything.
I've thought about asking the devs a way to have mod specific settings, but then I realised having to set the settings for each of the 78 mods files I have in my old /mods/ folder wouldn't be a nightmare. Also, even if installed Kernel Panic into its own indepedent folder, it would still use the same settings as Spring as they are in registery keys. And, no, forking the whole Spring project isn't an option, there has to be a middle way between forking Spring and making a Spring + mod feel like a nice complete package.
Right now, what I'm aiming at would be to enable the maximum of good stuff for new users, and be more respectful of current setting when you installer Kernel Panic over an existing Spring. Someone who use Spring for the first time wouldn't lash me because I enabled the ground decal, as it would just default for him. Anyway I'm convinced ground decal and LuaUI should be enabled by default even in regular official Spring installer. For instance, between installer 5 and installer 6, I changed it so it would automatically deselect "Spring engine 75b2" it the installer detected it was already present, as it seem people just clicked "next" and then wondered why it couldn't overwrite the very lobby they were chatting into. And I would have felt bad if someone lost his custom selectkeys.txt, uikeys.txt, or whatever customisable Spring file that he'd been tweaking for hours with love because of me: Now only first time players get my keybinds to place sockets, but at least I don't overwrite the uikeys.txt that have potentially been tweaked by an advanced users.
They won't get as a playable single player, but the old version thing is probably the kind of huge ugly mess they're trying to avoid by getting a zip in the first place.
Since the installer can now install Spring, it can also uninstall Spring. I don't really know how to uninstall only what was selected during the installation. But if you tell me that is a problem, then I'll have to look into it. Now that it looks at it, it's true my uninstaller is a little dry and could have some more details and issue a warning before deleting Spring:
Looks like I even forgot the descriptions.
In KP 1.3 times, I had an installer but no uninstaller, now I have an uninstaller but it's too crude, future version will have better uninstaller. I'm basically using K.P. as an experiment to turn Spring from "Install Spring, advanced users can get mods by downloading exotic files into certain folder" into a newbie proof "Install a 'game' powered by the Spring engine". I apologize if I didn't hit the new balance between independence and dependence I'm working toward perfectly right the first time, but it's a ongoing process I can only try to achieve gradually.
From I heard, the biggest problem comes from my installer turning on Ground Decal and LuaUI. In KP 1.3 times it just did it, now you can tick/untick it in the component screen, but I guess people that like you say, people just click through without reading. And then they go "Now my Spring is prettier, the interface looks different and B.A. tanks leave tracks marks, wtf, how do I remove that?" And amazingly, even "PRO" players who've been playing Spring engine for ages don't know what is LuaUI nor that they have a settings.exe.Most people just click through installers and then wonder why everything's messed up.
How to make this clearer but not obstrusive?
I know some argues I should never under any circumstances change settings such as LuaUI or ground decals, but if I do not, then no one but fellow modders would use them, while they are great and really add something to the game. Without the autospam widget, Kernel Panic doesn't play as smoothly, turning repeat on and enqueuing a bit isn't even skill test, it just an annoying chores that would make the game feels incomplete and unadapted to the engine. As for ground decals, they make KP look 120% better without hurting anything. I thought about throwing MessageBox to warn people about LuaUI and GroundDecal, but I'm afraid long time hard core Spring players would just click without reading and then ask the same question about how to remove the tanks tracks that appeared in their BA, and so the messagebox would just be an added annoyance for everybody without solving anything.
I've thought about asking the devs a way to have mod specific settings, but then I realised having to set the settings for each of the 78 mods files I have in my old /mods/ folder wouldn't be a nightmare. Also, even if installed Kernel Panic into its own indepedent folder, it would still use the same settings as Spring as they are in registery keys. And, no, forking the whole Spring project isn't an option, there has to be a middle way between forking Spring and making a Spring + mod feel like a nice complete package.
Right now, what I'm aiming at would be to enable the maximum of good stuff for new users, and be more respectful of current setting when you installer Kernel Panic over an existing Spring. Someone who use Spring for the first time wouldn't lash me because I enabled the ground decal, as it would just default for him. Anyway I'm convinced ground decal and LuaUI should be enabled by default even in regular official Spring installer. For instance, between installer 5 and installer 6, I changed it so it would automatically deselect "Spring engine 75b2" it the installer detected it was already present, as it seem people just clicked "next" and then wondered why it couldn't overwrite the very lobby they were chatting into. And I would have felt bad if someone lost his custom selectkeys.txt, uikeys.txt, or whatever customisable Spring file that he'd been tweaking for hours with love because of me: Now only first time players get my keybinds to place sockets, but at least I don't overwrite the uikeys.txt that have potentially been tweaked by an advanced users.
I have an idea how to make users NOT click trough installer without reading what they are doing. I've seen this in NOD32 installer. Basically, on the step where there are some important checkboxes/whatever that need to be checked by user, the Next button is disabled until the user clicks on the checkbox. I don't know if this can be done in NSIS though.
yuritch: This system cause annoyance but doesn't make people read and understand the stuff. I mean, who ever read an EULA?
But I posted to say that since UF is half-broken, I uploaded Kernel Panic 1.5 (Installer 0
7) to FU. But then FU has it share of problems too.
Anyway now at least if http://www.unknown-files.net/3521/Kerne ... taller_07/ fails you have http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=show&a=it&id=4933
But I posted to say that since UF is half-broken, I uploaded Kernel Panic 1.5 (Installer 0
7) to FU. But then FU has it share of problems too.
Anyway now at least if http://www.unknown-files.net/3521/Kerne ... taller_07/ fails you have http://www.fileuniverse.com/?p=show&a=it&id=4933-
Mr.Frumious
- Posts: 139
- Joined: 06 Jul 2006, 17:47
Was just playing KP and had an idea for the Bugs - the challenge with bugs is that their on/off is unqueueable. You have to send them to their destination and then mine them.
What I'm curious about is an alternate, redundant approach: use the D-gun command. That is, give it a very-short-ranged fakeweapon for a d-gun. When that d-gun fires, re-interpret it's firing into "activate". So, the behaviour is that it moves to firing range (which is very small) of the target location, and, when trying to fire, turns on instead. This produces a "move here and become a mine" behaviour.
What I'm curious about is an alternate, redundant approach: use the D-gun command. That is, give it a very-short-ranged fakeweapon for a d-gun. When that d-gun fires, re-interpret it's firing into "activate". So, the behaviour is that it moves to firing range (which is very small) of the target location, and, when trying to fire, turns on instead. This produces a "move here and become a mine" behaviour.
News!
Kernel Panic is going to be included with the Spring installer. We also are getting our very own ladder over at spring-league.com! More to come.
To celebrate, I registered #kp in the lobby. Use it to talk about Kernel Panic, the KP ladder, tourney, or pornography. Auto-join for the great idling.
Kernel Panic is going to be included with the Spring installer. We also are getting our very own ladder over at spring-league.com! More to come.
To celebrate, I registered #kp in the lobby. Use it to talk about Kernel Panic, the KP ladder, tourney, or pornography. Auto-join for the great idling.
Re: Kernel Panic
Now that 76b1 is out, we don't need SVN to play KP/0. Since the new hackers are much better than the old hackers, I declare /0 (and its evilless mutator) the official KP. So forget any above link, just make sure Kernel Panic is ticked when installing Spring. Anyway, posted to say that I
Made a quick KP video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAZQhRlt5bU
Made a quick KP video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAZQhRlt5bU
Re: Kernel Panic
Cool video! And I like that it doesn't start with goatse. 
Re: Kernel Panic
+1Boirunner wrote:Cool video! And I like that it doesn't start with goatse.
Good video
Re: Kernel Panic
In next version of Kernel Panic, I would like to include jK's BuildBar widget. Slightly modified to not include socket&window, and not draw a white square when on repeat. This widget basically adds a permanent bar on the right that let you see what the kernel is building, and let you change what the kernel builds, without having to scroll and select it.
jK's widget license is GNU GPL, v2 or later.
KDR_11k said Kernel Panic is Creative Commons.
Discuss the compatibilities of one into the other.
jK's widget license is GNU GPL, v2 or later.
KDR_11k said Kernel Panic is Creative Commons.
Discuss the compatibilities of one into the other.
Re: Kernel Panic
I said anything I contributed is PD or equivalent (my country doesn't permit actually releasing your work into the PD).
Re: Kernel Panic
I personally think that even arguing about licensing issues for a couple lines of scripting in an engine thats entire reason of existence relies on copyright infringement is silly. Just include the damn thing. 
Good idea by the way. I just find it annoying because whenever I scroll to the right I accidentally mark it, at least in CA. Maybe move the icon to the top third of the screen?
I don't think there is actually anything left in KP that relies on my work in any meaningful way, but if there were, my contribution would be as close to PD as possible (choose your own license).
Good idea by the way. I just find it annoying because whenever I scroll to the right I accidentally mark it, at least in CA. Maybe move the icon to the top third of the screen?
I don't think there is actually anything left in KP that relies on my work in any meaningful way, but if there were, my contribution would be as close to PD as possible (choose your own license).
Last edited by Boirunner on 13 Jan 2008, 00:53, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Kernel Panic
Creative commons is an organisation not a licence. It endorses 6 licences, which are not all compatible with GPL and can mean wildly different things.
Re: Kernel Panic
Yes, my error. As KDR just said, all his work for Kernel Panic, that, is, about all of kernel panic beside the maps and one or two widgets, is public domain. My contributions to kernel panic amount to a couple textures and minor edits, so I'll just say they're public domain as well.AF wrote:Creative commons is an organisation not a licence. It endorses 6 licences, which are not all compatible with GPL and can mean wildly different things.
There's the map marble madness. IIRC you lost the source image, so it can't be GPL (anyway GPL applies to code, not sure about maps). So maybe just declare it public domain.I don't think there is actually anything left in KP that relies on my work in any meaningful way, but if there were, my contribution would be as close to PD as possible (choose your own license).
My maps I'll declare public domain. I'll include the source of my maps as soon as I find a recent build of mapconv (one that accepts .png images. I saw in the source it now does, but I just don't know where to download a build.). Runecrafter map, I need to ask him again.
And while we're at it, KDR, can you post the new models in blender format in case YokoZar ask them again?
Yeah, I find it silly too. But better get the arguing before the release.Boirunner wrote:I personally think that even arguing about licensing issues for a couple lines of scripting in an engine that's entire reason of existence relies on copyright infringement is silly. Just include the damn thing.
I already edited it to remove a few things irrelevent in KP. I'll try to change it to a vertical bar for each kernel, and to move it to the top right corner.Good idea by the way. I just find it annoying because whenever I scroll to the right I accidentally mark it, at least in CA. Maybe move the icon to the top third of the screen?
Re: Kernel Panic
I hereby release the map "Marble Madness Map" under Public Domain.