All 3 lobbies or none. Betalord is the one to ask for this not me.Will AFLobby include some of these features?
XTA
Moderator: Moderators
aks are usefull, more than peewees actually. (just right now they are bit shadowed by crashers).
I agree on mortys being hard to use... yep..
but have you seen the cost????? they are really really cheap for a unit with those stats..
that makes them usefull for a rush*
and they have pin point accuracy using high trajectory, no other unit has this to shoot from behind a hill with that accuracy/range.*
*never got this to work ingame, but ive done poor testing of that.
Ive used cans as shields for dominators.
they are usefull in some situations.. but i agree they are bit hard to use... but not hopeless.
peewees need some fixing too (maybe more armor) but that can wait.
I strongly recoomend you to improve your 1v1 games AF.
watch the replays to spot your flaws. (ive commented some of your 1v1 :D).
About noob bashing, i declare myself innocent, and i try to teach whenever im in the mood to do so, suggest you guys yes, you clan noob bashing ppl, that try to teach, instead of wipe the floor with the newbs.
Anyhow, and even when its not the best to do, the only advice almost any noob needs is "build crashers", sad, but effective. (im not encouraging this).
i even can recall when did the hole "I have more crashers than you" contest.
... it was near the period small supcow map was released.. thats like .. 3 months?..
Im not saying crashers are uber, but it will do the mod a favor if we could see other unit type being used.
Another topic i wont touch, is maps, just try the small, not full of metal ones.
xta is a balance mod, not a noob bait.
I really really think we must test in small changes.
i really really think it will do a great good to xta to (agh) nerf a bit the crashers (for example the enegy output.. altough that is minimal), and the damage to ground..
the spiders.. i think they are fine, but as ppl complains about them..
maybe pump up the energy cost a lil bit? and make them less effective against air :D
what else?. ..
oh the popup.. .. i heard some xta master said it was a bit "cheap" in cost for the unit you get... should we listen?
On a more in depth look at the game.... but more to do with the feeling if it..
i have the impression, .. that some costs for teching up.. could be raised.
what i mean is... im not sure, but seems that some energy costs... specially on the resource production facilities must be changed.
again, im not sure, and that sensation could be related to the map size.
im think xta was created with (what i call) small maps (not much more than 16x16 for 3v3) in mind... thus.. at some points it has trouble addapting to bigger maps. (this can be solved with more/efficient transports/AI).
so blah. at some point it must be seen how well does xta fit bigger maps.
but first the first.. and that is the:
crashers
spiders
popup
srly, once that is done we can keep analizing stuff like llts, zippers, gunships.. etc..
e: forgot to say please :) (or else)
I agree on mortys being hard to use... yep..
but have you seen the cost????? they are really really cheap for a unit with those stats..
that makes them usefull for a rush*
and they have pin point accuracy using high trajectory, no other unit has this to shoot from behind a hill with that accuracy/range.*
*never got this to work ingame, but ive done poor testing of that.
Ive used cans as shields for dominators.
they are usefull in some situations.. but i agree they are bit hard to use... but not hopeless.
peewees need some fixing too (maybe more armor) but that can wait.
I strongly recoomend you to improve your 1v1 games AF.
watch the replays to spot your flaws. (ive commented some of your 1v1 :D).
About noob bashing, i declare myself innocent, and i try to teach whenever im in the mood to do so, suggest you guys yes, you clan noob bashing ppl, that try to teach, instead of wipe the floor with the newbs.
Anyhow, and even when its not the best to do, the only advice almost any noob needs is "build crashers", sad, but effective. (im not encouraging this).
i even can recall when did the hole "I have more crashers than you" contest.
... it was near the period small supcow map was released.. thats like .. 3 months?..
Im not saying crashers are uber, but it will do the mod a favor if we could see other unit type being used.
Another topic i wont touch, is maps, just try the small, not full of metal ones.
xta is a balance mod, not a noob bait.
I really really think we must test in small changes.
i really really think it will do a great good to xta to (agh) nerf a bit the crashers (for example the enegy output.. altough that is minimal), and the damage to ground..
the spiders.. i think they are fine, but as ppl complains about them..
maybe pump up the energy cost a lil bit? and make them less effective against air :D
what else?. ..
oh the popup.. .. i heard some xta master said it was a bit "cheap" in cost for the unit you get... should we listen?
On a more in depth look at the game.... but more to do with the feeling if it..
i have the impression, .. that some costs for teching up.. could be raised.
what i mean is... im not sure, but seems that some energy costs... specially on the resource production facilities must be changed.
again, im not sure, and that sensation could be related to the map size.
im think xta was created with (what i call) small maps (not much more than 16x16 for 3v3) in mind... thus.. at some points it has trouble addapting to bigger maps. (this can be solved with more/efficient transports/AI).
so blah. at some point it must be seen how well does xta fit bigger maps.
but first the first.. and that is the:
crashers
spiders
popup
srly, once that is done we can keep analizing stuff like llts, zippers, gunships.. etc..
e: forgot to say please :) (or else)
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
Yes the anti air that kills ground units very well has to go. Ak and peewee need to step up. My lvl 1 artilery needs to actually shoot something artillic like and be usefull at that. Vehicle plants are almost useless right now compared to kbot. Id only use them for mines. Sorry i just havent been very impressed with flash rushes versus crasher. Now that i think of it, the lvl1 stuff is not have a balanced vareity at all or at the least, dare i say it, that aa has better lvl1 balance than xta. Of course this is my opinion, but I dont see peewees much anymore and allot of people, though i saw foe using it, dont really use vehicle plants much either.
As for the shield generator situation; Newbs will like it and come; if you change the shield generator statistics then you wont have people porcing it.
I also think players should be more rewarded to expand. After awhile just making moho metal makers seems to be the goal.
Well i basically just asked for a very large xta rewrite. Well darn. Thats just my opinion. Actually i dont mind to much stuff being changed, but if the strat is taking out, Im out. Ill just play aa. Heck, I wont even do that, ill just get a gf and use some of my secret strategies on her.
And nor your new race better be good, like gf good, Or ill walk accross the room and bash ya in the head.
As for the shield generator situation; Newbs will like it and come; if you change the shield generator statistics then you wont have people porcing it.
I also think players should be more rewarded to expand. After awhile just making moho metal makers seems to be the goal.
Well i basically just asked for a very large xta rewrite. Well darn. Thats just my opinion. Actually i dont mind to much stuff being changed, but if the strat is taking out, Im out. Ill just play aa. Heck, I wont even do that, ill just get a gf and use some of my secret strategies on her.
And nor your new race better be good, like gf good, Or ill walk accross the room and bash ya in the head.
Using the Commander effectively in XTA is very hard indeed. Certainly compared to OTA.
The fact that missle towers dont have friendly fire means you don't have much defensive options. And the Commander is toast in a matter of 20 seconds versus a handful of crashers/jethros. He has alot less armour than he did in OTA as well. It's very tricky for a beginner to take care of him properly on an open map.
At least if people were using short range attack units (e.g. flashes) on open maps at the start then he'd have a fighting chance for the first 5 minutes before the massed missile units come onto the scene.
As people have said before it's essentially that this mod is very noob unfriendly. Good players are always going to beat noobs quickly (provided it isn't a noob porc map). You don't have to worry about those guys too much.
The fact that missle towers dont have friendly fire means you don't have much defensive options. And the Commander is toast in a matter of 20 seconds versus a handful of crashers/jethros. He has alot less armour than he did in OTA as well. It's very tricky for a beginner to take care of him properly on an open map.
At least if people were using short range attack units (e.g. flashes) on open maps at the start then he'd have a fighting chance for the first 5 minutes before the massed missile units come onto the scene.
As people have said before it's essentially that this mod is very noob unfriendly. Good players are always going to beat noobs quickly (provided it isn't a noob porc map). You don't have to worry about those guys too much.
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I was not refering to the LLT but to the HLT. I think that if the Pop-up get's lowered down, the HLT should be lowered down too. Last i've seen, lvl-1 units under a HLT are butter through a warm knife. As an example, if you hapen to have a Comm in 1/2 the range of a HLT that just got built, you will say goddbye to him 100% sure.[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:Refering to the llt, yes they are expensive, but they ...
But, again, this feedback i have of HLTs may be due to that bugged version.
I really must disagree. D-Gun is an awesome anti «Strong Units» but an awefull anti-rush one. It will kill one Krogoth imediatly, which is somewhat unfair, and, as an anti-rush weapon, has short range, bad aim, and a strong tendency to destroy half your base when used to defend your base.[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:... D-gun is a awsome weapom, and is the perfect anty spam (anty krog) tool. ...
I think that the comm should have the llt and d-gun, like now, but also depth charge launcher and a missile lancher from the back.
When i was «good» at XTA, 4 each 5 times, i wouldn't be feeling that killing instinct, the edge, that perfect concentration. Noiw, that i am extremely untrained, make that 1 each 1.[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:...
If ur gunna make it in Xta u need a clear head, consentration and the ability to learn. Not porce the hell out of ur opponant like AA.
Here endeth my bitching.
...
If playing a mod requires such intense concentration, people will start to not play it in the times they are not feeling 100% (90% of the time?), gradually abandoning it. A little what hapened to XTA.
If there was one thing i didn't liked about XTA, it has always been that. The knowing that a bad first 5 mins (a missed d-gun to the incoming Zipper, a jaffy that got away to the back of your base, etc) will completely ruin your game. That is minored by playing large maps but i prefer small ones.
After those 5 mins, XTA is better than AA.
Strategy vs Tactics
As up to me, the great about TA and TA Spring is the strategy, as oposed to the tactics. Tactics is also nice but i feel that a good mod is one that does not relies on intense micro or taks to win/be_good. As up to me, a good micro or heavy clicks/minute should give a small edge, not define who will be the sure winner.
Maybe you see things diferent. Maybe you see like the one who better microed the units deserves to win. I think it is important that you define what direction of Strategy vs Tactics you think of XTA's future.
Haa, i sound like a noob but .. what is vtol? Gunships? Vertical launch missiles?[KnoX]ElementalGizmo wrote:...
As for the vtol increase of 200hpts, this is going through extream testing. ...
Shield generators
I am against any kind of shield generators. It was a great thing of TA, that, if everything else failed (lots of bottlenecks and/or defense, which are quite powerfull in XTA), nothing would be able to block the final stalemate_killer. This is even more in XTA, where the LRPCs aren't as deadly (in range, accuracy and Dmg/sec) as in other mods.
Cans
Use the Cans (and sumos) as Llts (Hlts) with greatly improved armor and which are fairly mobile. Very usefull to bring in front of your artilery because they are strong, do decent (heavy) damage and they're projectiles are fast, to hit incoming fast units.
Think of that tactic as bringing your base's defenses, Llts and Hlts, with your long range weaponry.
And morties suck badly... They do something like 0,0001 Dmg/sec...
I know that morties really are hard to use but seriously, u may of increased default damage abit more, but u also raised the cost alot aswell, 55 + 32 (about 60 percent), metal 321 + 229 = 550 (almost as much as a 600-700 core domintator (heavy rocket kbot, 367 dmg per 8 seconds). although the morty techniqually does more dmg then the dominator now, it still has a shallow range for its cost of a unit now, and can be seen visibly and still easily fired on by a hlt (800 metal for hlt). It does continuess damage which causes the optical illuison of less dmg, as for the domintor does good range, and good damage instantly per hit, always makeing the openant nervous. As for the cost are almost the same as a Dominator by 100 metal, Perhaps morties are supposed to be used as a assualt arteillary unit, but with that metal cost, its highly unlikely to be mass produced the dominator can do most of the stuff but better anyway... i suggest decreasing the metal to the 480s or increasing hp...- [CORE_MORT]
+ Changed [DAMAGE] Default=55; to Default=87;
+ changed Energy=2865 to 3165
+ changed Metal=321 to 550
Also check ur anti air kbot costs and hitpoints compared to the vehicle, vehicles cost more, and are 100 hp weaker, and much bigger, which is bad!
Yep.. it was like that to me..PauloMorfeo wrote: When i was «good» at XTA, 4 each 5 times, i wouldn't be feeling that killing instinct, the edge, that perfect concentration...
its strange. if i play the good old xta v0.66 i do have this feeling again, like if i knew EXACTLY what will each and every unit i build do.
Tell me im crazy, or i did play too much that version.
but i dont get that feeling any more, in this version at least.
Some time ago i played the old v.66 again.. and it was like.. .. water.. smooth.. perfect
pff..
I wonder what is wrong, but i do know its not the same.
Putting morties behind a hill is a bit silly as usually the target is the defences on the hill pointed straight down at your morties.
And not all maps have the hill situation.
Berthas seem pitifull.
The only time I've ever seen them remotely effective was on small supreme battlefield with 4 on the island and even then I couldnt see any obvious advantage other than well I must be doing damage as 4 of them are firing...
oh and big boss, whats your username in the lobby?
And not all maps have the hill situation.
Berthas seem pitifull.
The only time I've ever seen them remotely effective was on small supreme battlefield with 4 on the island and even then I couldnt see any obvious advantage other than well I must be doing damage as 4 of them are firing...
oh and big boss, whats your username in the lobby?
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
Just like chess.If there was one thing i didn't liked about XTA, it has always been that. The knowing that a bad first 5 mins (a missed d-gun to the incoming Zipper, a jaffy that got away to the back of your base, etc) will completely ruin your game. That is minored by playing large maps but i prefer small ones.
After those 5 mins, XTA is better than AA.
Thats what is keeping some of us aboard. Very rarely are people feeling 100 percent. For me xta is to play a game, win or loose, and learn. To remove this would be killing the essence of xta for us. Even if xta made another version, to some of us xta would already dead. If that was to happen, i may move to aa and pray that there was something there i missed.If playing a mod requires such intense concentration, people will start to not play it in the times they are not feeling 100% (90% of the time?), gradually abandoning it. A little what hapened to XTA.
*grins* Gonna try to kill me with vehicles? My name here is roughly the same in the client. And I totally agree with you on the berthas. Makes me sad, very sad....oh and big boss, whats your username in the lobby?
more to the point me and kraftmaster ahd one of the most horrendous starts on small supreme battlefield after our other ally (big_guy) promised us metal then proceeded to build adv shipyards and soalrs for 5 minutes whiel metal stalling, havign built no mexes, and sitting ontop of the most metal rich part of our landmass.
Then dragonmaster sent in attack units and big_guy started hurling abuse saying we should have secured the centre despite our metal stalling asses being sapped further by his lack of mexes. Eventually me and kraftmaster just gave up as big guy was continuosly hurling abuse and blaming us for the failure despite being of no help and saying he wanted to go solo and leave us to ourselves.
Oh wait that was AA.
Now the 2 hour XTA game I had a while later with el barto was much better. Although it was in that game that I found out 2 millenium battleships and an anni was better than 5 berthas, whose only apparent advantage was targetting el bartos annis, and they couldnt even reach his base from the start of the land bridge despite it being small supreme battlefield.
Then dragonmaster sent in attack units and big_guy started hurling abuse saying we should have secured the centre despite our metal stalling asses being sapped further by his lack of mexes. Eventually me and kraftmaster just gave up as big guy was continuosly hurling abuse and blaming us for the failure despite being of no help and saying he wanted to go solo and leave us to ourselves.
Oh wait that was AA.
Now the 2 hour XTA game I had a while later with el barto was much better. Although it was in that game that I found out 2 millenium battleships and an anni was better than 5 berthas, whose only apparent advantage was targetting el bartos annis, and they couldnt even reach his base from the start of the land bridge despite it being small supreme battlefield.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I'm not sure i understood. You seem to be saying that that is what is keeping away people from XTA but also that that is the essence of XTA and that removing it would kill XTA?The_Big_Boss wrote:...Thats what is keeping some of us aboard. Very rarely are people feeling 100 percent. For me xta is to play a game, win or loose, and learn. To remove this would be killing the essence of xta for us. Even if xta made another version, to some of us xta would already dead. If that was to happen, i may move to aa and pray that there was something there i missed.If playing a mod requires such intense concentration, people will start to not play it in the times they are not feeling 100% (90% of the time?), gradually abandoning it. A little what hapened to XTA.
...
If so to the second part, i must completely disagree, as far as i am concerned. To me, XTA, oTA or etc, were never about the one who can click faster and give the most comands per minute beeing the sure winner. That is the Starcraft way, not the TA way, definetly.
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
Big Berths sure could use a range increase.
But as of they're use, i've seen them many times in breaking roles in Comet Catcher or, more often, IceArenA.
In IceArena, the game often goes into a state where each side has an almost unbreakable line of Annihilators and other defenses. One of the common ways ws to break that with Krogs. The other, the most common, was to build up a BB war.
It takes some time to break but i've seen (and done) just 2~3 BBs take out Annis surrounded by Adv DTs and with farks repairing (more often than not, the repairers end up dying to the BB shots).
I've seen uber tough BB wars in IceArena with good effect.
But as of they're use, i've seen them many times in breaking roles in Comet Catcher or, more often, IceArenA.
In IceArena, the game often goes into a state where each side has an almost unbreakable line of Annihilators and other defenses. One of the common ways ws to break that with Krogs. The other, the most common, was to build up a BB war.
It takes some time to break but i've seen (and done) just 2~3 BBs take out Annis surrounded by Adv DTs and with farks repairing (more often than not, the repairers end up dying to the BB shots).
I've seen uber tough BB wars in IceArena with good effect.
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The_Big_Boss
- Posts: 88
- Joined: 17 Jul 2006, 04:00
As for the first part....Yes, you did not mis understand me. That is my point. The only thing going for xta is strategy. If you remove that, then you have AA. So you cant remove strategy, or you loose xta. However there is hope I believe in an alternative solution...
As for your second... I disagree with your history remarks on ota. Some of the best players Ive seen multi task. But im refering to xta and not ota. In no doubt of my mind, whether it was ment to or not, the best players are the ones who use the perfect amount of multitasking in a given situation, never using more or less.
What did you mean by clicking? Or did your sentence mean multitasking?
And whats wrong with multitasking if it can beat porcing or be countered? What would be the consequences of reducing mulitasking?
However I do argue there needs to be more diverse ways to multitask.
As for your second... I disagree with your history remarks on ota. Some of the best players Ive seen multi task. But im refering to xta and not ota. In no doubt of my mind, whether it was ment to or not, the best players are the ones who use the perfect amount of multitasking in a given situation, never using more or less.
What did you mean by clicking? Or did your sentence mean multitasking?
And whats wrong with multitasking if it can beat porcing or be countered? What would be the consequences of reducing mulitasking?
However I do argue there needs to be more diverse ways to multitask.
I'm sorry, but your definition of strategy seems to be skewed grossly. Please reference the real definition in context before continuing with this baseless line of thought.
Quite frankly, XTA and AA don't inherently have much over each other. AA is bigger. XTA is glossier. They both element considerable strategy and flexible tactics.
Quite frankly, XTA and AA don't inherently have much over each other. AA is bigger. XTA is glossier. They both element considerable strategy and flexible tactics.
We should put 'the godlen rules' in our loadign screens.
Such as stalling is bad &evil never build what you cant afford
or
Idle units == evil
or
maxed out resources == evil
Those 3 rules would encomapss 90% of mistakes made by noobs, and in msot cases catapult them to medium high level of skill if they followed that ruleset. Aside from them being universal truths of every nearly single RTS game in existence.
Such as stalling is bad &evil never build what you cant afford
or
Idle units == evil
or
maxed out resources == evil
Those 3 rules would encomapss 90% of mistakes made by noobs, and in msot cases catapult them to medium high level of skill if they followed that ruleset. Aside from them being universal truths of every nearly single RTS game in existence.
