What if we took this one level higher...

[dj_oldfield]

Honestly, in many ways alot of DJO's ideas are really good and they make alot of sense. If spring gets really popular it just kindof logically proceeds that the website and comunity becomes a full fledged .com business. The thing is most people don't have the slightest clue how a .com business works, and the post really did sounds like you were asking for a pay to play system. And that kind of thing just doesn't work with an open source project. I personally think it's great that you have high expectations for what spring will one day be able to do. Honestly I personally have alot of things I would like to see in spring that are just impossible with the current system, and I think more open systems could be VERY valuble to players and modders alike.

Nice to see you here swiftspear! :)

I kept telling myself... Ill leave after this message... and just one more.

Anyway... you do get the point... only difference is... it wasn't going to be manditory. It was simply designated to create the community... and provide a means of keeping it reachable... nothing more.

Thank you very much for actually reading before you posted... I feel much less... irritated... then I did before.

[AF]

I agree whole heartedly with you. You've cleared it up a lot better.

Updates are an essential part and apart from me your the only one whose mentioned them, and caydr agreed that it was very important but nobody else has commented on them.

Overrall i think soon you should further seperate your ideas and start multiple threads specifically for them so people can focus on each idea in turn that they feel is relevant to them, without multiple topics blurring the path o discussion.

And it's nice to see someone be honest about why they're doing things. I needed the experience in coding, so I started trying to develop thigns, hence why I commited myself to coding an AI in the first place, and now I have a platform from which to experiment with things I've always been curious about, adn soemthing to show off should I need an example of what i can do, afterrall after NTAI my next bext project is a VB 6 IM program that works from IP to IP and uses military grade encruption.

[mongus]

hm, well this thing extends.

im able to see, that you alaready have half of this "thing" developed.

You want to "embrace" spring within your "last 4 years" effort.

The thing you are talking about is huge, and it still makes "use" of spring, as, it looks to have a lot of "extentions" but.. not real.. guts? and by guts i mean, hm.. substance, ahm.. interiors,.. its lacks its heart and organs.

So you have this hole "higher lever" layer application. and want spring to fill its guts.

hm.

you still keep talking about the commercial success of your work.

Im not sure, it seems like a giant squid taking over the engine.

your posts are long, and would take time to diggest.

But, you keep talking about taking spring into it.

And i think, its completely the other way around. Yuu must reach us, not we move towards your project.

Further on, you fail to demonstrate your huge "a la Steam" network, i wonder if you can do so without taking spring into it.

Finally, the hole level at wich you are taking things is poisoned by a "inversionist" needing, in this case, its you making a sofware inversion into the game.
Imho, spring doesnt need such inversionits.

i must read more carefully what you are talking about though.


*Clarification* When i talked about "idea" stealing, was in part bc i made a mistake iterpreting part of your .. post.
the part about "having an online repository of games, rate them and giving prices" read into my mind like "having an online repository of game replays, ..." which is another thing im thinking since long time now, altougth not much successfull convincing others to do :) .

Yet.. you are "using" spring concept to give life to your own prior work, and i see that very clearly now, as you have made it to us.

This hole thing will take time, and will not fit into only one post, mine or yours.

So, enough be said, now TO PLAY!!!!!, i luv that new map someone did, the one with metal structures among some sligth hilly terrain, man, very nice map.. now. .. its a bit metalish, but must test it further... i yet have to play nigthmapsomething online !!

[dj_oldfield]

As both of you have mentioned... it is difficult to accurately convey my intentions in these incredibly long posts on the same discussion thread. If I can, I will attempt to drop this thread all together beyond this point, and divide them.

I am not sure what you meant by

Finally, the hole level at wich you are taking things is poisoned by a "inversionist" needing, in this case, its you making a sofware inversion into the game.
Imho, spring doesnt need such inversionits.

but it sounds as though you are refering to creating variations of the software... so that you wind up with games running on a hundred different versions... so that nothing works correctly. If so... well... that was the point of building everything into a Spring Client... that is expandable... and can automacially (and dynamically) build it's datastructure. This would remove the variances in versions, and instead provide Libraries... which are more stable and easier in the event of change. This will be discussed further in a few months... when I get to that phase of development.

As far as my product... it does have everything that it needs to serve it's purpose... or it's "GUTS" as you said. The problem is... my goal is to build my program as an operating system... right now it is a server platform. The technology is highly adaptive... and very solid... and a project like this can help me to insure that it is stable... and has all of the components neccessary to provide a solid execution package.

I have no intention of moving "Spring" toward me... I just want to build code... and offer it. If you like it, use it... if not... then don't. It is that simple.

[Neuralize]

You want an omniengine? http://Www.garagegames.com .

I would rather Spring to be an engine that focuses on delivering an amazing RTS experience, rather than a mediocre one with the ability to be a bunch of different games.

[dj_oldfield]

You want an omniengine? http://Www.garagegames.com .

I would rather Spring to be an engine that focuses on delivering an amazing RTS experience, rather than a mediocre one with the ability to be a bunch of different games.

If I had to choose between those two... I would agree. But I don't think that increasing it's ability is going to force it into the mediocrety category... nor impare any capabilities that presently exist.

To the contrary... I think that creating a more scaler datastructure could greatly improve it's performance, and enabling it to support compiled enhancements would provide a more diverse range of possibilities... even in the rts world.

[AF]

More likely mroe novel RTS games could be made, or hybrid RPG fps, rts games where the world was played through all 3 genres with different people using different aspects of the game in each genre.

Perhaps your RPG character is a generala dn thus you have an RTS interface, ro you attempt to learnt he arts of assasin than general and thus assasinate the other teams general, but that general might decide to build thigns that make assasins harder to deal with, so lets say a FPS sort of thing would be more adept with lots fo weapons, but lets say this is a medievel game, and we want to teleport ourselves into the abse disguised and curse the units?

Or what if units fired weapons that gave units plagues or curses if they didnt kill them off?

Spring si an RTS orientated engine, but that doesnt mean ti cant ahve aspects fo other genres.

[AF]

heck ti might be possible to have several different games runnign on the same gameworld, such as an rpg, and a fps and a strategy game all working on the same instance with their own quests and items interchangeable and gamerules, independant of the other but tied togther by basic rules within the games and engien physics.

[SwiftSpear]

Agreed compleatly. You make things like unit leveling and trigger systems possible and it's only a matter of time before someone expounds on it and builds an RPG. Hell, look how many WC3 RPG UMS there are, and the WC3 system of managing that stuff can be very restricting.

With triggering, you could also make FPS weapon systems possible... Not that spring now has or will ever have the physics engine or hit detection to compare with some of the real FPS out there, but simply FPS style gameplay could make an RPG hybrid world alot of fun. Picture a dynasty warriors style campaign...

The things that make great RTS's great are often conducive to trancending beyond the basic RTS rules and principles.

[Min3mat]

dynasty warriors! woot!
however do not dirty those awesome games with rip-offs on the spring engine, its gold not to be wasted on a RTS game

[SwiftSpear]

Agreed, those SC UMS blashpemes are terrible. I'm not saying steal dynasty warriors, I'm saying the spring engine should be capable of producing a game in that genre. Hopefully if it ever happens the person responsible will have the taste to use intellectual property that hasn't already been done increadibly well by someone else.

[Min3mat]

true that would be pretty cool

[dj_oldfield]

not to mention... even for an rts game... an fps view of the battlefield would be sort of cool from time to time. Where you could actually control the commander in fps mode and D-Gun the invading army?

[[K.B.] Napalm Cobra]

You can do that already n00b.

[dj_oldfield]

Well... I know that you can pan the camera down like that... but I don't know of any player controls that enable such a feature... either way... it is still a good example in this context. It still demonstrates the crossover.

Thanks for reading and posting though :)

[[K.B.] Napalm Cobra]

"c"

[Nemo]

What he means is that fps style unit control is already implemented.

Select an armed unit and press c.

[mongus]

[SwiftSpear]

To be fair the FPS mode is still pretty rough. The auto aim is really frustrating and nonintuitive, and weapons like plasma cannons can violently outshoot thier maximum range with FPS mode controls (bad thing?).

Plus most units don't have a backwards movement protical, which makes them really unintutive to control.

However, yes dj_oldfield, select and unit and press "c" and it zooms you down into first person view, compleate with a crosshair set and everything.

[dj_oldfield]

How interesting :)

Can't imagine how I could miss that!

Anyway... as I said... the point is none the less intact... or probebly moreso.... extending this software to provide a greater diversity in games will improve the gameplay... even directly for rts games :).