OTA VS XTA - Page 4

OTA VS XTA

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Witch is teh best mod lol?!?

XTA!!!
28
50%
OTA!!
28
50%
 
Total votes: 56

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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat »

badman: to the last paragraph, Amen
kixxe: GRRRR
You sucked as a n00b to. We all was n00bs, we all SUCKED ASS! No, there is always someone beter, and you always did MAJOR mistakes as a "newbie".

He maybe did'nt know what fusions was even! Come on, he's a newbie. If he is a newbie, he dosen't know it all, but still want to know more and dicuss what he does know.



"Newbs is our future! Someone has to take over the legacy..."
he was BUILDING a FUSION i told him to go for MOBILE/LIGHT fusion. he understood but ignored me (he could speak english proficiently)
I was a spec, i gave friendly advice. noobs are our legacy. n00bs suck.
mongus
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Post by mongus »

ah! the flame arguing war! what every thread should be about!

ist all this stuff related to balance and dont follow the spirit of this thread?

nobody has taken my advice of not responding to other ppl arguments.

i want to read the thougths of everyone not just the i post more than you guys.

let ppl tell its personal opinion here and go discuss it at other thread if you feel like.
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

BadMan wrote:
Give me an example, I've seen every unit in XTA used effectively, there really isn't anything that is outright useless.
Well with the current state of XTA, bombers are useless, hawk and vamps are "almost" useless, other than for defending against brawlers. Vulcans are pretty useless for what they cost and what you get out of them. They are more of an annoyance than anything else. Sure they have 2x the range of a BB, but I rather build 8 BB because they are cheaper and faster to build and more viable.
Bombers have thier neiche role. I think that's the one unit right now that I would recommend beefing up a fair bit. They do hurt kroggies a surprizing ammount though apparently. You need hawks or vamps, period. Without them you lose air supperiority, and without air superiority your 10 goli rushes will be brawlied to death by 15 brawlies, your outskirt bases will be destroyed by L1 gunships effortlessly. A good player will make you hurt like nothing else if you let them take the air. Hawks and vamps take out L1 fighters in one hit, and they are stealth so artillery won't shoot at them when they fly formations outside your base, keeping your inner base outside of radar range much safer. They also decimate gunships and bombers twice as fast as thier L1 counterparts. Vulcans and buzzys are underpowered at the moment. But 3-4 of them will absolutly decimate a base if you can somehow put them up unopposed.
Warriors are disturbingly fast, on the Kbot side, zues are increadibly powerful, granted sumos are a force to be reconed with, but they take forever to move anywhere, and are easily pushed down by large numbers of conventional defenders. 5 sumos can't push through 2 annihiators. Brawlers are the counter to everything, they are an EXTREAMLY effective air unit. Bombers rarely play a role in game any more. Rapiers aren't nearly as effective, except against brawlers...
Yes, warriors are WAY to fast for what they are. Hell, the are as fast as jeffy and they are a heavy kbot. Large number of MT's doesn't do anything to a swarm of sumos. I did say Ann's have their perks, and yes I agree, they are very powerful for defense (and offense.) Cans are a tad too fast for my taste; they are supposed to be painfully slow. But yes, I have to realise (and you too) that XTA is a work in progress. I am very grateful for SY putting tons of work into spring and their XTA mod. Not everything is perfect, as you can read the complaints in the forums. But as XTA stands right now, it can use a bit more balancing.
Nah, Warriors are shock troops now. They have very little hitpoints and acctually don't do much damage per second. Thier role is blitzkrieg. They really barely one up light kbots and vehicals, and heavy defence like HLTs just eat them up. An annihilator kills them in one hit. Sumos need to be countered with super heavy defence. 1 to 1 they will swallow bulldogs pretty easily, but in the range of a doomsday or annihliator they are just little puppies. Pick your grounds when fighting sumos, as soon as they have moved into a location they really can't get out. It's a nastly little strat to get some sniper kbots and just follow the sumos along just outside thier range. Cans aren't supposed to be slow, they are armored assault kbots, they are supposed to have the speed of an assault unit. Comparitively pyros and warriors which are "assault kbots" move just slightly slower then a jeffy. All the units in XTA have had a role restructuring, many have totally different roles then they did in OTA.
Annihilators far outpreform doomsday. The little green lazer is inconsequential compared to the vast outpowering of the primary annihilator beam. Core does have a better all around artillery line up, but with arms intensely mobile heavy assault forces it is hardly like arm isn't able to effectively counter.
Thats true, but you have to admit that Core owns the late game. Once you have a good economy with Core, you can dish out a ton of high powered units fast.
In this case I would argue that it's all the fault of kroggies. Everything else in the core roster is counterable, goli are expesive and slow, and they get eaten by brawlies. Sumo are slow and expensive. Core late structures are an equal to arm late structures at best. Kroggies are just invinciable. 1 Kroggie will push through several bulldogs, several brawlies, and a few doomsday machines and come out not so much worse for wear in the end. You can nuke the things 30 times and they won't die. The atlas counter is iffy at best as an aware kroggie will kill 4-5 atlases without being picked up, and many players back up thier kroggies with vamps or avengers which will kill an atlas in one hit. A lucky commander might Dgun a krogoth, but if the kroggie is aware he will kill the comm before that happens as well. Plus if you pushed a kroggie into your enemies base you have most likely destroyed all his offensive units and probably have a second kroggie well on it's way, so even if you lose one it isn't a tragidey. I honestly think this game should be balanced without the krogoth, and the krogoth should just be left off by default. Either that or arm needs a cost effective counter, preferably in base defence format so an aware core player doesn't feed his kroggies to the birds by accident.
Core is acctually harder to use in XTA then arm. Arm units are FAST and cheap, sure they don't have alot of HP but you can have a bulldog with 0 energy requirements all of 5 minutes into the game. You can't really use golis or sumos asside from small skirmishes until your first fusion goes up. It's pretty easy to get half a dozen bulldogs up while youre still in the cloaky fusion stage and just roll over your opponent.
Yes, Arm has a very good advantage early in the game, as I have found that out by experience. Personally, I think that is one thing I loved about XTA and OTA. I think ARM has the better rush/raid units early on to really hurt Core. If you were Core and the arm opponent failed to hurt you during the rushes, you are in a very good shape for the rest of the game. (Assuming you kept expanding and not just porcing)
It's somewhat true, but core has a pretty decent offencive lineup as well... Instigators and AKs are tougher then thier arm equivalent by a fair chunk, as well as raiders being quite a bit toughter then arm's light tanks. Immolaters trump all arm l1 artillery, and core popups have 1000 more hitpoints then the arm equivalent. Crashers can almost outshoot sampsons, and they are a bit more cost effective, they also way outpower jethros. Core pyros are absolutly scary in the early game, and they build pretty fast costing very little metal and energy after you've got your L2 kbot lab up. There are definately counters to all the powerful early core units, and core is at the disadvatage that thier high end heavy units won't be usable until later when they have more energy from fusions, or even several light fusions, but core isn't as useless in the early game as you might think.
Last edited by SwiftSpear on 11 Oct 2005, 23:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

How about paralyzation mines. They should do enough paralyzation damage to compleatly freeze every unit in the game, including Krogg's. Then calmly walk you comm up to it and blast it! Volia, balence.

Also the mine should be an arm only wepon, and would fill out the whole spider techtree nicely, as the spiders get blowed up by kroggys, so you could just pepper the easyist entrences into your base with the P mines. Problem solved.
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

Zoombie wrote:How about paralyzation mines. They should do enough paralyzation damage to compleatly freeze every unit in the game, including Krogg's. Then calmly walk you comm up to it and blast it! Volia, balence.

Also the mine should be an arm only wepon, and would fill out the whole spider techtree nicely, as the spiders get blowed up by kroggys, so you could just pepper the easyist entrences into your base with the P mines. Problem solved.
Wait... does the spider lay the mines or does the mine layer lay the mines? I like it, as a paralized and then legitimately killed kroggie is a potentially ressurrected kroggie. mine freeze the krogoth and then just push 3-4 spiders on it and keep it nice and paralized while your HLTs take it out. A good core player might be able to rescue his kroggie in the mean time however, or just know better then to run him into mines. This is a great idea.
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WeaZ
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Post by WeaZ »

ok if there are 23 votes that say OTA is better PLS IM me or find me on the TA Spring Battleroom
my s/n on AIM is weaz8289
my name on the TA Spring Battleroom is
X_WeaZ_X
my email is weaz8289@yahoo.com
lol with 23 votes I BETTTER get some kind of communication
Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

There are'nt really anything bad using stop using level 1 units after you built level 2.

Aging, think of XTA as AoE. Each Level is much stronger then the priveius one, and renders the other one obsolete.
Of course that is bad. That was the whole premise of TA; that it wasn't about "levels" at all. Infact, it was the primary weakness of AoE!

The point in TA was that the first level was your standard army, and your second level were specialty units. The second level didn't obsolete earlier units; that would be silly, because then you are just playing two different games, with the changeover being the deciding factor of most games. It means that instead of having 100 units at your disposal, you have two lots of 50 units. It also means that players are better able to learn by wrote how to play (ie: have x done by y minutes), which was the fundamental weakness of the Warcraft and Starcraft series.
Indeed, it reduces the strategic options available to you. It becomes "Tech up or die"; or worse "tech up by the y minute mark or die". In OTA, someone could decide to spend their resources on a power-in-numbers lower level army, or they could spend their resources on a mixed army that had balanced levels of higher and low tech, or they could specialise in a single high tech force for a particularly devastating strike. Each tactic was just as viable as the other; and within those categories (and others unmentioned) were thousands of possible combinations.

Second tier units should not obsolete first tier units. They should simply fill roles that are required as the game progresses.
A heavy tank shouldn't prevent you from building light and medium tanks; the heavy tank might be big and powerful, but it is slow and cumbersome, while the light and medium tanks offer fast support, LOS and ease of maneuvering (for flanking, etc).

If this is the path that XTA is going down, I certainly think that it is the wrong one.
Bombers have thier neiche role. I think that's the one unit right now that I would recommend beefing up a fair bit. They do hurt kroggies a surprizing ammount though apparently. You need hawks or vamps, period. Without them you lose air supperiority, and without air superiority your 10 goli rushes will be brawlied to death by 15 brawlies, your outskirt bases will be destroyed by L1 gunships effortlessly.
This sounds like Rock-Scissors-Paper to me.
Everything else in the core roster is counterable
Again, this was never the TA way. It was never about things having direct counters; indeed, the counter-for-counter gameplay undermined StarCraft, and basically leads for a very straightforward game style.
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

Rock paper scissor balance is by far preferable. The alternitive is an all out resource war in which whoever player controls the most resoures for the most time is guarenteed a win unless they screw over thier micromanagement in combat. With PRS balance there is acctually a good reason to scout the enemy and be aware of his bases internal workings. If I know my opponent is pumping out goli I know I need brawlies, if I know my opponent is pumping out brawlies I know I need fighters. If I don't know what my opponent is doing I better hope he can't guess what I am doing. If I'm playing a game without RPS balance I'm screwed as soon as my opponent holds more resourses then I am and I can't stop him. I might as well quit right then.
BadMan
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Post by BadMan »

Yea, that was one thing I disliked about OTA, CC did help that a bit but not very.

XTA does need something for the arm to defend against the krogoth. I'm not really looking for a counter unit, maybe just a defensive structure that could seriously drain the life of a krog. Ann's and doomsdays don't do enough damage against a krogoth, they are fine for every other unit tho. The only real counter to a krogoth attack is to have your own. Sucks if your arm tho.

In OTA, a good way to counter against krogs, besides defense, was to have massive hawks and mavs. 50 mavs could take down a krogoth, as well as the then end-game hawks.

Or just incorporate the razorback (spec. edition) into XTA and beef it up to where maybe 5 of them can kill 1 krog with 1 survivng. I loved the remake of the razorback and it was a very balanced unit in OTA. Strong and fast, but defensive structures and powerful units can take it down in no time.
BadMan
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Post by BadMan »

SwiftSpear wrote:Rock paper scissor balance is by far preferable. The alternitive is an all out resource war in which whoever player controls the most resoures for the most time is guarenteed a win unless they screw over thier micromanagement in combat. With PRS balance there is acctually a good reason to scout the enemy and be aware of his bases internal workings. If I know my opponent is pumping out goli I know I need brawlies, if I know my opponent is pumping out brawlies I know I need fighters. If I don't know what my opponent is doing I better hope he can't guess what I am doing. If I'm playing a game without RPS balance I'm screwed as soon as my opponent holds more resourses then I am and I can't stop him. I might as well quit right then.
TA isn't rock paper scissors tho. That is what makes TA so great. I really good player can use unit control to kill an army that is a lot bigger than his. This really shines in the early raids/rushes. Sure you can build fighters to counter brawlers, but you can also go sams, penitrators, mobile flak, and other things so you don't have to go all fighters. If this was OTA, then yes, massive hawks ftw.

I love TA because there aren't just 2 units that are the bread and butter (or one for that matter) like in starcrap. People complain about micromanagement and many "RTS" games try to get rid of that. That is what made TA so great. You have COMPLETE control over what you do. You can be losing but if you hatch a tactic that surprises the enemy, you can still win. I played many RTS and I just keep comparing them to TA and keep coming back to TA as well.

If TA was RPS at its core, it wouldn't be around today. Its been all these years and its still going strong, and maybe even stronger now that supreme commander is coming out.
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Min3mat
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Post by Min3mat »

'Starcrap' is apparently balanced to perfection, so STFU noob (why else would those koreans play it? i've tried it! the graphics and gameplay are CRAP!)
Agreed with the rest! micro FTW! and hawks! and let Vulcans become once again a (kindof) krog counter! :D:D:D
Kixxe
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Post by Kixxe »

Of course that is bad. That was the whole premise of TA; that it wasn't about "levels" at all. Infact, it was the primary weakness of AoE!

The point in TA was that the first level was your standard army, and your second level were specialty units. The second level didn't obsolete earlier units; that would be silly, because then you are just playing two different games, with the changeover being the deciding factor of most games. It means that instead of having 100 units at your disposal, you have two lots of 50 units. It also means that players are better able to learn by wrote how to play (ie: have x done by y minutes), which was the fundamental weakness of the Warcraft and Starcraft series.
Indeed, it reduces the strategic options available to you. It becomes "Tech up or die"; or worse "tech up by the y minute mark or die". In OTA, someone could decide to spend their resources on a power-in-numbers lower level army, or they could spend their resources on a mixed army that had balanced levels of higher and low tech, or they could specialise in a single high tech force for a particularly devastating strike. Each tactic was just as viable as the other; and within those categories (and others unmentioned) were thousands of possible combinations.

Second tier units should not obsolete first tier units. They should simply fill roles that are required as the game progresses.
A heavy tank shouldn't prevent you from building light and medium tanks; the heavy tank might be big and powerful, but it is slow and cumbersome, while the light and medium tanks offer fast support, LOS and ease of maneuvering (for flanking, etc).

If this is the path that XTA is going down, I certainly think that it is the wrong one.
Okay, i can see your point. Still levels are not in case bad. They can be usefull to add a deapth of leveing up, on spending money on getting a good army fast or attacking with weak units before the enemy has a chance to tech up. This would make older unit's useless, (Offcourse, AoE 2 fixed the problem with upgrading the units) but made it a gamble both ways. That way, you had 2 major roads to walk down. Sinence or rawpower. The starting building blocks of Most games.

Oh, and let me point out that OTA backfired on this point. In most cases, level 2 where to weak and was never built, with the excetion of gunships. I've read atleast 2 guides that say that you should't tech up. Rather, you should push on with level 1 units untill the enemy dies.

The balance works both ways. To owerpowerd, to underpowerd, it's all the same in my book. It both wrong, and it needs to be fixed. >.>

'Starcrap' is apparently balanced to perfection, so STFU noob (why else would those koreans play it? i've tried it! the graphics and gameplay are CRAP!)
Agreed with the rest! micro FTW! and hawks! and let Vulcans become once again a (kindof) krog counter! :D:D:D
If you EVER say "STFU noob aging, im gonna come over to your house and beat you with a stick. A big stick.
And i can't see who your talking to... quote plese?


Aging, im sorry for this absolutley stupid treadh, and the flame war i broutg opon us. I even contrudict myself in a previus treadh just like this one!
Let's just stop this whole XTA vs OTA vs UH nonsense and get to the point. We all love diffrent mod's. My money is on XTA, and that's all i have to stay. Let's drop the flames and the ''smart'' remarks, and start discussing what this treadh is about...

Oh wait, this treadh is just a random complaint that got owend bye rushing loving pepole.

Well, it might be best to stop this nonsense before it goes any furter, would't it?
IMSabbel
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Post by IMSabbel »

About the krogoth...
Well, arm with the annihilator already _has_ a decent defensive counter against the krogoths, at last single ones... for the money of a krogoth, you can build 4+ annihilators, and _if_ you get radar coverage of the krog, 4 annhilators can kill a krogoth before it comes into fireing range (dont forget to put fortification walls around it).

What really hurts is
a) krogoth as a defense unit... good luck trying to assault a base with a kroggy as a spotter for the long range artillery and damage taker...
b) defending against kroggy as core... only way is to build kroggies yourself, as LRPC wont stop them because of damage/accurace (120 hit needed.. lol), immos have to little range and doomsdays are simply laughable against krogs (they are only useful for absorbing damage while other stuff deal out)

But ultimatively, the endgame problem is: you can put only so much defense structures before your base, but the enemy can produce krogoth after krogoth... and if he has his energy economy up, at ever increasing rate.
Thus a core player can assemble a bigger and bigger assault force while strenghtening the defense at the same time (any kro that leaves the factory adds to base defense while the others are attacking). Arm simply has no ground units to take on krogs... (air is another matter, but you need a lot of gunships vs more than 1 krog, plus while they are at it they are sitting ducks...
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Masse
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Post by Masse »

i been having trouble with that kroggy thing too... the CORE is just better team for large maps and long lasting battles...

if u ask me. the snipers damage vs krogoth should be raisen so we have anti krogoth... that way every ppl dont want 10 krogoths. too often it is the krogoth that does all the job cause ARM just have to stay defencive.
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

I personally think that if a player manages to get 6 krogoth out and into my base then yes, it is fair to expect the loss. But IMHO we need a solution that does not allow one krogoth to destroy an arm players whole offencive force simply because the arm player has no way to counter it short of throwing everything at it frantically. There needs to be a low cost solution, preferably not something universally effective like offencive aircraft (which will counter other things like goli 4 times as effectively as they counter the kroggie) and that still gives a smart core player a chance to keep his krogoth if he is playing properly.

I really like the freeze mine idea. If you can get a krogoth frozen then you get a free corpse kill krogoth, meaning that now the arm, with farks, can counterkrogoth rush. Core players will learn to value the lives of thier krogoths and keep them where they won't be frozen.

Masse: Arm should NEVER be defencive. Arm hold the middle game, bulldogs and brawlies trump the core middle units pretty strongly, and they are cost effective enough they can really pull through to end game as well. If an arm has played to the point where they are forced to the defecive they have pretty much lost. Core should be on defencive for the middle game when they are putting up the energy resourses to keep goli and sumos able to fire full speed, after that they need to meet the arm in agression or the arm bulldog race will outpace the core's already slow goli/sumo building.
BadMan
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Post by BadMan »

Whoo hoo. OTA is catching up :D
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

SwiftSpear wrote: This is a great idea.
I am so great. But on a less egotistical slant, i cant see why, or even WHAT we are arguing about. Both mods are fun, with different gameplays and sutch, so why dont we just add in a EMP mine and get on with our pointless, short lives.

Also Kixxe meditate on the following sage advice

"Dont open a can of worms"
Warlord Zsinj
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Post by Warlord Zsinj »

I'm not even going to bother arguing why rock paper scissors is the absolute weakest form of gameplay available to an RTS. Its not worth my time; if you honestly think that it is better than a holistically balanced game like TA, then I think you might be playing the wrong game.
Oh, and let me point out that OTA backfired on this point. In most cases, level 2 where to weak and was never built, with the excetion of gunships. I've read atleast 2 guides that say that you should't tech up. Rather, you should push on with level 1 units untill the enemy dies.
I don't think you have ever really played OTA. I play OTA (as in, not the OTA mod for Spring, but the actual game) fairly regularly; and I haven't seen a gunship for a long time. Which is not to say that they are useless, only that their particular role hasn't been needed in any games thus far.

Level 2 is certainly not weak. The reason they are only rarely built is a sound one. You are not expected to fill out your army with majority level 2 units. That would be inefficient. You build the level 2 units that you need to fill the roles. I don't need thirty goliaths or bulldogs; I need three or four to soak up the damage on the front lines long enough for my light units to do the damage.
I don't need 30 morties. The morties would just get killed by the faster, lighter level one units. However, a few morties at the back of my main level 1 force will augment my force by providing a long range artillery attack.

Think of a modern army. The main force are your infantry, while you have a few more expensive tanks which serve to support your infantry. Sure, the tanks have got heavy armour and massive firepower - but they are bloody expensive, and have weaknesses of their own. Infact, there are many things that infantry simply do much better than tanks. Which is not to say that tanks have no role, only that you don't need the majority of your army to be tanks, you need the majority of your army to be infantry - which are supported by tanks.
The same goes for OTA. Level one troops are your "infantry". They form the bulk of your forces, and they provide the meat of your warmachine. You should rely on them to do all of your grunt work - they are good in numbers, and often offer excellent speed and firepower for their respective costs.
Once the game progresses, however, you will find that you will need specialty units to fill roles which your grunt forces just can't manage. They may have a powerful line of defenses which your troops just can't crack (heavy tanks, long ranged artillery), or you may want to launch a sneak attack (radar jammer), or you might want to add a bit of power to your armies (mavs, penetrators, etc).
These units do not obsolete the earlier units. Indeed, they can always be bested by earlier units when left unprotected; they have special roles, which they can fulfil excellently when used properly - but they aren't simply "a bigger, better and meaner" version of an earlier tank. You have to use them intelligently throughout your armies, mixing and matching your forces to get the most out of what you need them to do. There should never be a be all and end all super unit, or a combination of units, that always trumps.

---------

For the people balancing the Krogoth, perhaps a counter unit is not always the best solution. Indeed, counters are often the worst way to fix a problem, as they often result in more problems, such as counter-counters, and counter-counter-counters, etc. The worst situation is when it becomes a matter of "You have a choice of option A and option B. Your player has a choice of option C and option D. Option A beats C, and Option B beats D. You don't have any knowledge about what your enemy is going to do, but you have to take a punt and hope that the option you pick will win."
Of course, that is the fundamental weakness of the Rock-Paper-Scissors balancing strategem; that there is no intelligence at all involved in it.
In terms of balancing the Krogoth, rather than placing some unit that trumps it, you need to look at the Krogoth, and look at its strengths and weaknesses. You have to isolate and define these, and then make them particularly obvious. If the Krogoth is slow as hell, your artillery units can bombard it before it gets in range. If it has a shocking turret rate, your units can run circles around it. If it has poor reload, you can mix your troops with weak cannon fodder and expensive punch-packers to try and draw the krogoth's fire. And then there is the simplest of all, which is what OTA used to balance it. If the Krogoth is massively expensive, and takes ages to build, then it serves the player who falls victim to it right. For the cost of a Krogoth, a player should be able to build an army that can be fielded well before the Krogoth. A player with adequate intelligence can just starve his opponent before the Krogoth is fielded.

As you can see, there are many, many ways to balance things; adding a simple "counter" unit is the easy way out, and almost inevitably backfires.
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Zoombie
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Post by Zoombie »

Thats all true... but think of how usefull a paralyzation mine would be for a lot of other situations, most of whitch deal with units that are slow and hard to kill. The mine by itself dose nothing but buy you time, and with Krogoths you need all the time you need.

But with the expence of the thing, you should already have had enough time. Unless the enemy has been carful and made no OUTWARD signes that he/she is building the Krogoth... :|

BUT you should always be running airplanes over the enemy base, just to keep him on his toes... so how could you not see the Krogoth gantry, or the tell tail signes that its there (lots of flack/missle defences around an area of the base).

What if the enemy has flack and missles spread evenly throgh out his base... hmmmm

Then use more planes.

That aught to work.

Your right Warlord, we dont need a counterbalence unit. We just need to play smart, play hard and give it out all!

Wait... isent that from Lazer quest?
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SwiftSpear
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29

Post by SwiftSpear »

It's way to easy to master an economic build and then pump out all the right generic units. If you know your micro you will be able to win every game without even thinking about what your opponent is doing. That IMO is a game weakness. It has nothing to do with stratigey it has to do with optimums. If you hit all the optimums better then your opponent you win. The game doesn't even deserve to be called a RTS. It's just real time repetition.

TA wasn't solidly like this, I realize that, but I still prefer the stronger RPS of XTA. Bad RPS RTS players guess, good players stratigize and scout.

Argue all you want that RPS gameplay is weak or doesn't work. The fact of the matter is it's just not your preferance. You are limiting your options if you don't have unit counterunit mechanics in your game. You go from several possible working builds to one possible build. The lack of RPS gameplay is a straight off giveaway that an RTS is overall weak.

RPS alone is a pretty weak form of gameplay, but without it you build an overall very weak game. Either way, seems to me I'm playing the right game because XTA is fairly RPS balanced.
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