OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread - Page 4

OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Discuss game development here, from a distinct game project to an accessible third-party mutator, down to the interaction and design of individual units if you like.

Moderator: Moderators

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quantum
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by quantum »

Forboding Angel wrote:I read the original thread licho. There was no joking in that thread. It only became a joke once PW for BA had been done after people bitched at you about it.
Licho wrote: Besides planetwars development is not hidden, you can review all tickets/changes. There are many BA related commits and some tickets reporting/fixing BA related planetwars bugs.
http://planet-wars.eu:8080/trac/ - go to timeline and check few months back.
Go check Licho's link, or you'll look really silly when we bother to dig up more evidence.
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Argh
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Argh »

Um, at the risk of mortally offending everybody just by posting, here are my thoughts:

1. CA-bashing is lame. Most games / mods are bootstrapping off their tech, whether they choose to acknowledge that or not.

2. CA has a few things that it's not sharing (or refuses to document) that give it a competitive advantage. This is evil... why?

However, that whole module thing points out something else, that does concern me. CA's documentation should probably be linked to in the Wiki. A lot of it's probably collecting dust simply because the rest of us aren't aware it exists (like the documentation of how to write a Module).

Just my opinion, of course.

3. CA's just one of many GPL things that people could contribute time to. If people started making good-looking tanks or robots that weren't clearly infringing, I'd be happy to put them into World Builder for anybody to use, for example. If that means that eventually BA is using stuff from World Builder to do a total redo, and that maybe World Builder could serve as a "we'll take it if it isn't obviously awful" clearinghouse for content, that might be a solution to a lot of problems. It could replace otacontent.sdz in the long run.

The only reason I haven't imported any CA art into World Bulder is because I'm not entirely sure that it's all really GPL-compliant, and since I'm about to make money, I'd prefer not to get sued over using models whose legal status I'm unsure of. If the CA team would care to comment on that, I'd like to add stuff like their building models to the project. Then it would be further down the road towards becoming the universal collection of objects for Spring game development I was wanting it to be, as opposed to "just" being a lot of static stuff for map development.
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lurker
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by lurker »

I wouldn't use the phrase 'refuses to document'. It implies that documentation is to be expected.


http://planet-wars.eu/ModelBase/Units.aspx This helpful?
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Argh
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Argh »

You're right, that's more combative-sounding than was intended. And, hell, I can't claim that I've done such an uber job documenting everything in P.U.R.E. by any means. So I'm certainly not saying I'm doing better.

[EDIT]Yes, that's totally what I needed to get started with that. I'll start integration sometime in the next 24 hours.[/EDIT]
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Licho
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Licho »

Argh wrote: However, that whole module thing points out something else, that does concern me. CA's documentation should probably be linked to in the Wiki. A lot of it's probably collecting dust simply because the rest of us aren't aware it exists (like the documentation of how to write a Module).
It is linked since always.
Directly from main site.
Look at the bottom of http://caspring.org/

If you mean other wiki, well.. its a wiki, anyone can edit it and add links.
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Argh
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Argh »

Wait a minute. How can the Crabe be marked "OK"?

It's a TAAN unit design, did they release that stuff under a GPL-friendly license? Or is it just assumed that if it's old modder stuff, nobody cares?

I guess I'll just stick to .S3Os, it's about the only way that I can be reasonably sure.

[EDIT]It really looks like you folks would benefit, if a lot of GPL meshes were made available. I can't spare time to map/skin them right now, but I have lots of stuff sitting around that I'm probably never going to use, and I'd be happy to give it away under the GPL.

I'd post them around here, but ... hrmm... that sounds like a good use for a "mod" Forum. I'll talk to Swiftspear about that.[/EDIT]
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Forboding Angel
Evolution RTS Developer
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Forboding Angel »

Peet wrote:Why are you turning a generalized conversation into direct, explicit personal attacks, Forb?

I'm not. I made an example.
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quantum
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by quantum »

Actually we exchanged a few messages and realized we agreed on open sourcing Planetwars. So... http://springrts.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18718
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lurker
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by lurker »

Argh wrote:Crabe
Is it marked at 100% too? That thing needs some more categories, or even a license text box. But OK means it's okay to be used in CA. CA has no desire for models to be gpl, and will take any permissive license.
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Licho
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Licho »

I guess that this planet-wars upgrade config for BA, 5 months old, is part of the evil conspiracy too!

http://licho.eu:8080/trac/browser/trunk ... figs_BA.cs
Saktoth
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Saktoth »

Forboding Angel wrote:quant: http://evolutionrts.info/evolutionpatch ... 0Versions/

The game itself isn't so important, what pisses me off is the fact that sak**** (apparently I'm not allowed to call people names, regardless of how appropriate it is) came into our autohost, and started spewing. That makes me pretty mad. I don't come into the CA autohosts and start bashing CA. It's pretty damn sad that a CA dev has the need to come in and start bashing. Notice that I never came after him about it publicly (other than mentioning it as a basis for fail).
Ya have now! Thats a bunch of mates (utukki, google, myself) getting together and chatting while playing a new mod. We happen to be CA players, yes, but we also happen to play other mods together extensively. [RoX]John was the only other guy in the convo. This is not the sort of feedback id give to the dev of the mod or the sort of thing id say in public, its just spitballing. I didnt know you were recording it.

In the replay, i criticize the mod for being ugly, and when john asks why i dont help out, i say i would if i thought the mod is any good. When john criticizes CA (outta the blue, this wasnt a CA vs Evo discussion), i call it 'only the best mod ever' (hyperbole, talkin shit). I also criticize the animation on the 'plumber' and the fact that the models have no teamcolour (saying that if forb expects us to use teamplatter, he should rename the widget and enable it by default).

We werent trying to diminish your playerbase or take away players or bag your mod in public.

Google and i actually start out the replay by criticizing s44 for its vast array of special damages and the way it balances the factions. We like and play s44 and have contributed constructive balance feedback. Google and i do this a lot. We're on the IW beta team, we played and gave feedback on PURE through two different versions, we play and beta test almost every new mod that comes out. Almost every one of KDR's mods we and other CA players play, host, test, give feedback on and basically drive the entire playerbase for them.

We are not hostile to non-CA mods.
Last edited by Saktoth on 05 May 2009, 05:03, edited 1 time in total.
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MidKnight
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by MidKnight »

Maybe this has been posted already, but here's the truth:

With the CA dev team, ideas almost always start as one dev's little dream or pet project. When the dev has some free time, he or she may try working on realizing that. Pretty soon, other CA devs get interested and start helping, and it matures to become one of CA's features. Now, these features, these services, this code, each of these is one of our little creations. they are our babies! We don't code them to break wit other mods; we code them for CA because CA is the project we work on, and it's simply easier to hard-code our projects for CA.

Look, through our paradigm, at what you are doing each time you port a CA feature to other mods: you are taking our little pet projects and making the generic, all-mods-have-got-them features. Now, in the opinion of me and many other CA devs, this is not a bad thing! We like to see others using our projects and benefiting from them. That's the concept behind open source software! However, when a feature is ported, that's one less unique feature only CA has, one less incentive for players to go try CA. This is why CA chickens has gone unmaintained since TFC ported it to BA. Now, from what I understand, he ported it with our blessing, and we actually helped him convert it to a BA mutator, and we bear no ill will to the many enjoyable games of BA chicken defense going on even as I type this, but it makes me just a bit sad that all the new features and tweaks that TFC added to BA chicken defense haven't been backported to CA, and the feature originally created as a CA pet project (KDR and Rattle helped, though!) is now one of BA's most popular attractions, and one of CA's least played.

Now, keeping this in mind, think of how we feel when others accuse us of deliberately coding content that will break with BA. That's saying that because we aren't actively working to improve the offerings of our competitors, we are breaking some unwritten code of conduct. Couple this with the fact that we are, in fact, actually doing exactly what you claim we aren't doing, that is, working on porting our projects to other games, in spite of the massive amount of flame we have received for doing it (TFC complained when Quantum gave him easy steps to make BA mission-compatible, here you guys are, yelling at us because we're trying to bring PlanetWars to BA), and your points are diluted beyond any reasonable meaning.

Thank you.

PS: As for the "CA advertisements cause flame wars" argument, look at our "ad-lines" list. There is no reference at all to BA, and of the references to BA that previously existed in the list, none demeaned it. We don't say negative things about BA, we say positive things about CA. Whether you think so or not, this is saying a lot. Look at today's commercial advertisement world. It is perfectly legal to say that something is "better" than its competitors, as the term "better" is subjective. The previously cited adline ("better graphics, better gameplay. CA") didn't even mention BA. For all we know, it could be referring to Perimeter 2! Saying that adline is aggressive is like saying Papa John's Pizza's slogan ("Better ingredients. Better Pizza. Papa John's.") is evil and aggressive. Nevertheless, we removed that adline. As for our "rabid fanbase," many current CA players (me included) were long time BA players. CA didn't suddenly turn us into rabid animals! It's just that many BA players have never played anything else, and dislike CA out of mere ignorance. Our wish is only to expose these players to everything else that the Spring Engine can offer. This is why we defend CA so vehemently; when, as is so often the case, a troll bashes CA (which they do often because they know they'll get entertainment out of it), we must respond, so as to stop impressionable newbies and longtime BA-and-only-BA players from becoming prejudiced. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place. :(

EDIT: Forb: Saktoth has called my models terrible pieces of shit on multiple occasions. As a result, my modeling has improved. :P
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smoth
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by smoth »

Saktoth wrote: We are not hostile to non-CA mods.
you guys(ca devs) have been nothing but nice
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Pressure Line
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Pressure Line »

MidKnight wrote:Saktoth has called my models terrible pieces of shit on multiple occasions. As a result, my modeling has improved. :P
I still have to give you the stare far too often.
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Argh
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Argh »

Ok, I've finished working on conversion of CA stuff. All S3Os have had their normals fixed, all textures are DDS, lots of other little stuff (like cruddy texture2s) was fixed. You'll notice an immediate change in the feel of everything. If you CA folks don't like the results, that's fine with me, I just figured that since I did the work, I should share it out immediately.

I'm just using the (very few) buildings that seem to be GPL-compliant in World Builder. They'll be scaled up, and I'll be rewriting their COBs in places, to fit P.U.R.E.'s scale.

I've included the unitDefs, and the 3DOs, etc., so that hopefully no references are borked.

Can't spare the time to paint up some of the stuff that's begging for a reskin atm, but that's just how it goes.

Here's a download link.

From now on, I really suggest that people submitting work to the project either use DDS, or just submit the final textures as TIF, for conversion by somebody else.

And if you guys are serious about keeping stuff GPL and flexible for other projects, have people submit the original source materials (i.e., PSD / GIMP / PSP with layers intact). Just my two cents on this, after having to deal with various minor nightmares of file-format conversion, etc. today.

On to other fun stuff...
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det
Moderator
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by det »

Thanks for the fixes, btw, can you tell me what revision you did your work on to help me merge it?
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MidKnight
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by MidKnight »

I ArE A SUP4h D3TeCT1vE!!!11!one!!11!!!

The revision Argh used is between 4454 and 4460 (inclusive).
It's probably the stable 4460, but any revision in that range would work.
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Argh
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by Argh »

Sorry, my bad. It's from 4460 stable.
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MidKnight
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by MidKnight »

SuPaH DeTecTiVe FTW! :|
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zwzsg
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Re: OTA-Based Mod Collaboration thread

Post by zwzsg »

smoth wrote:Believe me I am still on the fence if I think starwars/s44 looks better
Starwars doesn't count because it's vaporware.
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