Spring Site 2

[ILMTitan]

I for one am in the camp of no news (except the last release) on the front page. The people who are likely to contribute are very likely to dig around the site, which is why AF has Development as one of the standard top navigation links. I don't think asking prospective contributors to make one more click would change the number of people we get to work on Spring (or Spring games).

[SwiftSpear]

I for one am in the camp of no news (except the last release) on the front page. The people who are likely to contribute are very likely to dig around the site, which is why AF has Development as one of the standard top navigation links. I don't think asking prospective contributors to make one more click would change the number of people we get to work on Spring (or Spring games).

We use it for doing things like telling people about incoming down ages and other community projects as well. Like I say, it's not just an engine that needs to be promoted, it's a project, we need some space for global announcements.

[theHive]

Id quite like to change the colours so there was less of that gray blue colour and more red or black etc, perhaps changing the blue on the overlay to a translucent black so the underneath is showing through, and perhaps making the rounded thing at the top red instead of dark gray blues.

Or perhaps removing the rounded bit at the top altogether and stretching the entire thing across. The 8 things at the bottom also seem a little redundant since there's a games menu and there's need for news too at the bottom.

http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/testfront2
All I've changed from your one is removing the header at the top. If you change roflcopter's colours are changed a bit that could work well. There'd be a transition from the FP to the rest, but I think it'd be fine.

[Warlord Zsinj]

News isn't just a helpful portal for people who know about Spring already and want to find out the latest updates - it's also a vital indication of life for websites.

I know when I visit a promising website I always check the date of the last news post to see if it is still active.

A sexy looking website could have been looking sexy for the last two years with little to no activity actually going on behind the scenes.

Which is also why community news is important - it immediately displays an active and vibrant community, especially when Spring releases are getting fewer and far in between these days.

[Vadi]

Yes, you *go and look for* the news section. As long as you can find it easily, you're OK.

[SinbadEV]

http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/testfront2
All I've changed from your one is removing the header at the top. If you change roflcopter's colours are changed a bit that could work well. There'd be a transition from the FP to the rest, but I think it'd be fine.

http://newspring.darkstars.co.uk/wiki/s ... /testfront

and I just added the hover image functionality for the mod boxes.

[LOrDo]

What about the code that Gnomre made?

I think it has room to improve, say, with area for news, and a bit more dimensional support (though personally I'd be happy with it floating), but it's functional and it's very pretty.

I like this one better then AF's design. It would be good to use, or base off of.

[ILMTitan]

My one comment about the front page is that "Don't know where to start?" should have an answer in the form of a link(s) to About and or News, followed by "or check out our games". Otherwise, the games, coupled with the fact that the download link is in the featured game picture, might obfuscate the fact that Spring itself has an installer.

[SwiftSpear]

Ya, the page sort of obfusticates the point of the website... There isn't a clear "here is spring" feeling too it. It's sort of a graphical portal for accessing different mods... I'm concerned a new user might go "Oh, starwars, I want to try that!" click on the link, and get lost when they aren't immediately presented with a functional installer.

The front page should reflect the install process for new users, and provide helpful information. While I'm not against putting mod news and mod adds on the front page, making them the highlight of the page is sort of missing the point. Mods are very important, sure, but at this point in time you still need the engine installer to make them run.

[edit] And we do need a frontpage newsbar, even if it only holds 1-2 short items. I'm totally against a 1 click block page. I hate when websites do that. The frontpage should be functional enough both for navigating and for gleaning current information, both for new and old users.

[SinbadEV]

I tried out a roflcopter-esque background on my version of the testfront

[Warlord Zsinj]

I disagree, swiftspear. Apart from the big "download here!" button, I really think that the Spring site ought to be a portal for previewing various mods - Spring itself is effectively a portal on which various mods exercise themselves, so I don't think there are any mixed messages here.

I think the first thing the website needs to do is capture the first time viewer's attention, and their imagination. How to install is really secondary to that, and can be provided by secondary links. If a new user arrives, he's not going to install it unless he is sold on the concept.
If he goes "oo, star wars, I want to try that!" and clicks the SW:IW button, he'll either be taken to a page that is hosted on Spring suited to roflcopter's design set-out that informs him what SWIW is, gives some more screenshots, and has a big fat download link, or he'll just be directed straight to the SWIW website, which (if designed well, that's really a mods responsibility) should equally be designed to be noob friendly and easy to navigate.

I do agree regarding having some basic news on the frontpage though, but I think it should not be too difficult to implement into roflcopter's design.

[TradeMark]

at first post: i dont like the layout, doesnt look like a game site at all...

I tried out a roflcopter-esque background on my version of the testfront

Looks awesome! just drop the edit buttons out of there, its a gaming site, not wiki site...
and where are the forum buttons etc? it needs clear links for all content, not links which are randomly inside some text-blablabla as its now.

[Forboding Angel]

someone obviously hasn't read the thread...

[AF]

Im afraid Im going to have to veto the changes to the roflcopter design that remove all the elements of the site theme. By doing this you ahve introduced god knows how many design issues regarding consistency, usability, aesthetics, etc.

I am also going to have to nuke any attempt at roflcopters design being put in as a site wide template with a fixed width.

This is not me suggesting, this is not me hinting, this is me telling you, and by god am I fucking serious, you're perverting my work, and Id rather take the whole thing down and keep it to myself than allow such a huge flaw as the front page looking totally different from the rest of the site.

The background the spring engine header and the main menu must match across the entire site. You can change the background to something of a similar style, aka looks the same but has something different instead of smoths Z'Gok models.

But by doing what you're doing your nuking consistency.



Regarding news, there is no news page, its supposed to go on the frontpage as a list of news items to pick.

I also think that listing the games and linking to their websites like has been done in roflcopters design is not good, it is bad, it doesnt draw users into the site, the user doesn't realize it takes them to a different site until they've clicked it, and it defeats the point of the games page and menu item, which tbh is what we should be pointing at instead in a larger image with a much clearer text.

And for once can someone seriously take a look at roflcopters colour scheme? Am I not the only person who thinks the colours are fugly?

[theHive]

The background the spring engine header and the main menu must match across the entire site.
...
But by doing what you're doing your nuking consistency.
...
And for once can someone seriously take a look at roflcopters colour scheme? Am I not the only person who thinks the colours are fugly?

See, I don't agree that the header and main menu must match for the Front Page. For the rest of the site, yes, I agree, but the front page can be an exception, IMO.

There must be some level of consistency: colours, overall feel, etc., but that does not require matching the theme 100%. I think if we say the header must be on the front page we are severely limiting ourselves as to how it can be displayed.

I do not think that roflcopter's colours are inherently bad, but I agree with you that they do not suit the colour scheme that you are using on the rest of the site, a reason why I suggested that roflcopter's colours should be changed:

If you change roflcopter's colours are changed a bit that could work well.

Yes, I can see the stupidity of that quote now (the sentence doesn't make sense!) but you can see what I mean.

[AF]

My design was made so that it would suite the content, but at the moment there is no content, which fatally undermines my design. But this isn't an issue because the site needs content anyway and if theres no content to go with my design then people haven't done a very good job of filling up the website.

It is possible to make a design for a front page that both uses what I've done and looks a lot better than what roflcopters design does. There are a lot fo elements of roflcopters design that are good but theyre vastly underused and the potential goes out the window.

His colours aren't bright enough for example, but because of the big screenshots its not been noticed, there's too much gray in the colours, and indeed there are parts of it that match the websites that hijack domains with search engines or adverts for cialis.

What about the width? Sure there's nothing wrong with fixed width for an individual page but look at all that unused space! Sure you dont mind unused space but imaging if we used that space to make the pictures bigger!!!!

And that 'dont know where to go' just seems out of place and hackish as if it was shunted there randomly.


As it is we have a minority of die hard roflcopter fans, and 2 or 3 people who plucked up the courage to say they didn't like it rather than go with the consensus. The minority is driving the majority here and its unfair.

[theHive]

My design was made so that it would suite the content, but at the moment there is no content, which fatally undermines my design. But this isn't an issue because the site needs content anyway and if theres no content to go with my design then people haven't done a very good job of filling up the website.

I have no problem with your design for the wiki. It's functional and it looks all right. I'd be happy with it as the theme for the site.

It is possible to make a design for a front page that both uses what I've done and looks a lot better than what roflcopters design does. There are a lot fo elements of roflcopters design that are good but theyre vastly underused and the potential goes out the window.

It may be possible to do so, but I'd rather get something up than have people debate forever about having a better design. Why can't we set this one up, then when(/if) someone's come up with a better design change it? It is a wiki afterall.

His colours aren't bright enough for example, but because of the big screenshots its not been noticed, there's too much gray in the colours, and indeed there are parts of it that match the websites that hijack domains with search engines or adverts for cialis.

I'd call this a preference thing. I personally don't like lots of bright colours. I don't see anything particularly wrong with the colours in roflcopter's design (except that it's colours don't match your existing blue theme, a concept that has been mentioned previously).

What about the width? Sure there's nothing wrong with fixed width for an individual page but look at all that unused space! Sure you dont mind unused space but imaging if we used that space to make the pictures bigger!!!!

Aren't we talking about an individual page here? The front page?

And that 'dont know where to go' just seems out of place and hackish as if it was shunted there randomly.

It's clear and it's effective, so I don't have a particular problem with it. It does seem a bit out of place, but it's not too bad.

As it is we have a minority of die hard roflcopter fans, and 2 or 3 people who plucked up the courage to say they didn't like it rather than go with the consensus. The minority is driving the majority here and its unfair.

Why don't we wait until we get a design that's better? Until then roflcopter's is something to work from.

Basically it boils down to: we have nothing better at the moment.

I'm perfectly fine with using a better design if we have one, but for now we don't.

[Argh]

This is not me suggesting, this is not me hinting, this is me telling you, and by god am I fucking serious, you're perverting my work, and Id rather take the whole thing down and keep it to myself than allow such a huge flaw as the front page looking totally different from the rest of the site.

Meh... calm down, AF. A front page should look different than the rest of the 'site... the design considerations are a lot different.

Moreover, it'd be very easy to change the color schemes to match... maybe a shade of blue-green-gray that's near the middle of your two choices, like this?

[Felix the Cat]

Im afraid Im going to have to veto the changes to the roflcopter design that remove all the elements of the site theme. By doing this you ahve introduced god knows how many design issues regarding consistency, usability, aesthetics, etc.

I am also going to have to nuke any attempt at roflcopters design being put in as a site wide template with a fixed width.

This is not me suggesting, this is not me hinting, this is me telling you, and by god am I fucking serious, you're perverting my work, and Id rather take the whole thing down and keep it to myself than allow such a huge flaw as the front page looking totally different from the rest of the site.

ALL HAIL AF, KING, SUPREME OVERLORD, AND ABSOLUTE DICTATOR OF SPRING! ALL SHALL QUAKE BEFORE HIS MIGHTY... uh... MIGHTY POWERS OF MIGHT!

[SinbadEV]

Alright, Alright...

Here's the problem... no-one has made NEW art similar to roflcopters design that allows us to use the template AF has designed.


Now that you guys have all started spitting acid about it I'm starting to think more along the lines of needing a bit of news and stuff on the frontpage is needed... stupid useless splash pages with no information turn a lot of people off... having mod links on the front page without actively promoting that you need to get the Spring Installer first is going to confuse people...

I'm going to play around with the template.



edit: Obviousely that header needs to be a lot prettier...