Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Moderators: MR.D, Moderators
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
I figure that I'm projecting some personal discomfort onto the text of the post, but yes, I read the same post you did. I'm worried that the statement implicitly pushes me out of the role I've offered to fill, in which case, I don't think the outcome will be as advantageous as it might otherwise be. Much like what happened when both Tired and I stopped trying to contribute to CA early in the development process.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
i dont care how or which mod will do it ... just do it!
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
I'm down with that!Treeform wrote:i dont care how or which mod will do it ... just do it!
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
CA is an open source project. We dont claim sole rights to any of our original works, let alone that contributed by the community at large. We actively encourage and endorse other mods (such as BA) to take our content.
We are always open to new contributions and go out of our way to make sure new lua widgets (terraforming, cloaking fields, for example) and models have some place to fit into the game, to encourage people to keep contributing to the project. But when it comes to gameplay, there is fierce debate about every change. Its nothing personal, but its important we discuss gameplay changes exhaustively and do not shrink from criticism.
Any re-design of an OTA based spring mod would need an actual mod to work from. The things being discussed now- basic concepts such as 'Is there a commander or do you milk cows' to things such as factional differences and unit setups are entirely mod-dependent and gameplay-driven decisions. Its already been said that this isnt going to be just re-inventing the peewee but a new game with new fiction and designs.
Of course you could create an entirely new mod from scratch, or just re-create the OTA units in the hope that BA or XTA might use them (doubtful). But this would be rather counter-productive as we intend to do in CA precisely what you plan to do here anyway.
We are always open to new contributions and go out of our way to make sure new lua widgets (terraforming, cloaking fields, for example) and models have some place to fit into the game, to encourage people to keep contributing to the project. But when it comes to gameplay, there is fierce debate about every change. Its nothing personal, but its important we discuss gameplay changes exhaustively and do not shrink from criticism.
Any re-design of an OTA based spring mod would need an actual mod to work from. The things being discussed now- basic concepts such as 'Is there a commander or do you milk cows' to things such as factional differences and unit setups are entirely mod-dependent and gameplay-driven decisions. Its already been said that this isnt going to be just re-inventing the peewee but a new game with new fiction and designs.
Of course you could create an entirely new mod from scratch, or just re-create the OTA units in the hope that BA or XTA might use them (doubtful). But this would be rather counter-productive as we intend to do in CA precisely what you plan to do here anyway.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
So where are the concepts? What is the new unit names? What is the units we need to concept. What is the name of the sides? What are the story lines?
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
A lot of that is up to the artist to decide (if he so choses). Arne obviously enjoys the storyboarding and coming up with fiction, so if he wants to do that i see no reason to restrict him...
Seeing the value Arne puts on 'functional art' reflecting meaningful differences, there is some decision to pick which function to reflect. As for 'What units do we need to design' there are 400 of them in BA/CA and 200 of them in OTA, so... *_*
I dont suppose Arne wants to do all of them, but if his factional designs (Stealthy high-tech core, brute force direct arm) conflict with the gameplay design of most mods (Its not just CA here, though CA emphasizes this more than many others), thats kind of a problem.
I suppose we could always flip the factions if we needed to, though. CA, at least, will be happy with whatever we can get...
Seeing the value Arne puts on 'functional art' reflecting meaningful differences, there is some decision to pick which function to reflect. As for 'What units do we need to design' there are 400 of them in BA/CA and 200 of them in OTA, so... *_*
I dont suppose Arne wants to do all of them, but if his factional designs (Stealthy high-tech core, brute force direct arm) conflict with the gameplay design of most mods (Its not just CA here, though CA emphasizes this more than many others), thats kind of a problem.
I suppose we could always flip the factions if we needed to, though. CA, at least, will be happy with whatever we can get...
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
There was a post about someone who wanted to make 'LEGO bits' which people could make models from, to get a consistent look fast.
My approach is the similar. I want to establish a language. This language could very well have words in the form of little 'prefabs' which could be easily referenced for inclusion into a new unit design someone chooses to make. I already draw the little emg and laser guns in a similar way on all the units. They're really small now though, and I think that if certain 'words' will be repeated a lot, I should pay more attention to their design.
When I draw the units of a faction I do consider the philosophy of the faction. Again, I think it's important for a unit to communicate what is it about. This is why I'd like to establish faction identities early. As for my RAM=macro/general purpose, LORE/CRUX=micro/specialized idea, maybe skilled players won't migrate to the micro faction if there's a way for the macro players to do something with the time they spend not micro'ing... such as building more units and gain numerical superiority (and not by having cheaper units), i.e. the micro management for the macro faction lies in resource gathering... maybe they just milk cows and sit home at the ranch watching their tanks roll over the horizon.
I already have some ideas of how to reshape the infringing designs without losing their... rough feel.
I think it would also be fun to do a more faithful take on TA, so maybe I'll export some of the infringers above into that project. I could probably just snag a top-down screenshot of a tank and paint over the details and accentuate the aesthetics I prefer. I found some zip file here with screens of all units recently, it could be useful.
I'm a bit busy working now. I'm (supposed to be) doing stuff for Cortex Command and also Disney. I'll do this for free when there's time and sudden inspiration.
My approach is the similar. I want to establish a language. This language could very well have words in the form of little 'prefabs' which could be easily referenced for inclusion into a new unit design someone chooses to make. I already draw the little emg and laser guns in a similar way on all the units. They're really small now though, and I think that if certain 'words' will be repeated a lot, I should pay more attention to their design.
When I draw the units of a faction I do consider the philosophy of the faction. Again, I think it's important for a unit to communicate what is it about. This is why I'd like to establish faction identities early. As for my RAM=macro/general purpose, LORE/CRUX=micro/specialized idea, maybe skilled players won't migrate to the micro faction if there's a way for the macro players to do something with the time they spend not micro'ing... such as building more units and gain numerical superiority (and not by having cheaper units), i.e. the micro management for the macro faction lies in resource gathering... maybe they just milk cows and sit home at the ranch watching their tanks roll over the horizon.
I already have some ideas of how to reshape the infringing designs without losing their... rough feel.
I think it would also be fun to do a more faithful take on TA, so maybe I'll export some of the infringers above into that project. I could probably just snag a top-down screenshot of a tank and paint over the details and accentuate the aesthetics I prefer. I found some zip file here with screens of all units recently, it could be useful.
I'm a bit busy working now. I'm (supposed to be) doing stuff for Cortex Command and also Disney. I'll do this for free when there's time and sudden inspiration.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Oh wow, so I'm not the only one into that :DArne wrote:Cortex Command
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Yes i am the one that wants to auto generate units out of standard parts.... looking more into it its not going to work that well.
I don't think we should change the balance of the units this much. Oh and isn't EE IP free? Why practically no one plays it?
I think very similar sides with minor differences is the way to go rather then try to invent new mechanics.
I don't think we should change the balance of the units this much. Oh and isn't EE IP free? Why practically no one plays it?
I think very similar sides with minor differences is the way to go rather then try to invent new mechanics.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Yeah it's free of ta IP but iirc fang doesn't want anyone messing with it.Treeform wrote:I don't think we should change the balance of the units this much. Oh and isn't EE IP free? Why practically no one plays it?
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Why not, new stuff is interesting.I don't think we should change the balance of the units this much.
Besides, someone could rebalance it anyway, sci-fi needs no explanation why tough looking robots are more fragile than sleek ones. :)
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
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- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Players do, though.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Yes, it is ip freeTreeform wrote:I don't think we should change the balance of the units this much. Oh and isn't EE IP free? Why practically no one plays it?
They do not play it in large groups because,
A: A while back fang had to take a break and people thought the project was dead.
B: Most people are here to play TA.
Not that I think minor differences is a bad thing but some new mechanics are nice also.Treeform wrote:I think very similar sides with minor differences is the way to go rather then try to invent new mechanics.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
What about C: Fang considers the current version beta and doesn't want it to be widely played?
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Nah, Fang hasn't expressed a concrete opinion either way. You're reading too much into his humour.KDR_11k wrote:What about C: Fang considers the current version beta and doesn't want it to be widely played?
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
Actualy it should not matter how we balance them, if we are trying to create a unit set similar to TA unit set but without the IP issues. Many mods can use this unit set and balance it however they want.
Hmm now i just need to figure out how to concept a LEGO set for TA like units...
I was thinking maybe some thing based on this style. Plain metal is much easier to texture and we do have limited man power.
http://wijitmaker.deviantart.com/art/Su ... t-23141160
while some thing like this
will be quite hard for you guys to model.
Hmm now i just need to figure out how to concept a LEGO set for TA like units...
I was thinking maybe some thing based on this style. Plain metal is much easier to texture and we do have limited man power.
http://wijitmaker.deviantart.com/art/Su ... t-23141160
while some thing like this
will be quite hard for you guys to model.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
I suppose it's possible to do LEGO bits... but would these be assembled by the modeler or realtime ingame?
What I had in mind was something like little bits which could help to get a consistent scale of things. Mostly weapon barrels... but I suppose it could work for other things as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
If I ever do a proper line-up sheet, it could help if all models were done at the same scale. X 'units'= 1 meter and X pixels. Maybe it could also help if a few edges were snapped to a certain grid... this way textures could be transfered between units easily and not get stretched (assuming the UV map isn't distorted).
I'd rather have unused space on an texture than stretched details in this case, because otherwise things like hatches, plating, detail lining and rivets would be scaled and this would give the impression of an inconsistent scale. If everything is handpainted this is not a problem, but if one starts sharing texture bits between models it might be.
However, this approach probably won't be useful well when dealing with high-poly stuff and 1024 texture maps (which I think is useless and a waste of time for an RTS game where you see the units from 200 meters away 99.9% of the time... unless you're doing eye-candy screencaps for promotional purposes).
Just some doodles and thoughts. (PeeWee and Flash Tank)
What I had in mind was something like little bits which could help to get a consistent scale of things. Mostly weapon barrels... but I suppose it could work for other things as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong....
If I ever do a proper line-up sheet, it could help if all models were done at the same scale. X 'units'= 1 meter and X pixels. Maybe it could also help if a few edges were snapped to a certain grid... this way textures could be transfered between units easily and not get stretched (assuming the UV map isn't distorted).
I'd rather have unused space on an texture than stretched details in this case, because otherwise things like hatches, plating, detail lining and rivets would be scaled and this would give the impression of an inconsistent scale. If everything is handpainted this is not a problem, but if one starts sharing texture bits between models it might be.
However, this approach probably won't be useful well when dealing with high-poly stuff and 1024 texture maps (which I think is useless and a waste of time for an RTS game where you see the units from 200 meters away 99.9% of the time... unless you're doing eye-candy screencaps for promotional purposes).
Just some doodles and thoughts. (PeeWee and Flash Tank)
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
I was thinking of doing the lego set on as little as texture as possible. Hopefully 2 2048x2048 texture per both sides. The entire Lego set will be use on one texture.
The parts would have to be assembled by the molder. But that is not hard much like playing with legos - it seams to be the fun part.
This is my list of parts i think that consider the minimal number needed:
basic shapes: quads, L shapes, cylinders with different slants and smoothed edges: 15 types. (for making buildings)
body : car, tank, plane, boat, robot : 2 types of each
robots: arms,legs,heads: 2 types each
movement: treads, weals, hover platforms: wings 2 types of each
gun : about 10 types + nano hand
misc: antennas, radars, jammers.
15+10+6+8+11+3 ~ about 52 different parts.
each part gets a 284x284 square on the 2048x2048 texture map - not bad. I am looking of a minimal number of parts we can use to make some thing that does not look like all boxes - but maybe we should start with all boxes and work our way up to ubersness one step at a time.
The parts would have to be assembled by the molder. But that is not hard much like playing with legos - it seams to be the fun part.
This is my list of parts i think that consider the minimal number needed:
basic shapes: quads, L shapes, cylinders with different slants and smoothed edges: 15 types. (for making buildings)
body : car, tank, plane, boat, robot : 2 types of each
robots: arms,legs,heads: 2 types each
movement: treads, weals, hover platforms: wings 2 types of each
gun : about 10 types + nano hand
misc: antennas, radars, jammers.
15+10+6+8+11+3 ~ about 52 different parts.
each part gets a 284x284 square on the 2048x2048 texture map - not bad. I am looking of a minimal number of parts we can use to make some thing that does not look like all boxes - but maybe we should start with all boxes and work our way up to ubersness one step at a time.
Re: Prometheus Spawning Grounds
I'm not that big a fan of the LEGO idea, i think it may lead to the units being too similar. If you do go that route, please make the "pieces" smaller, not chassis+gun style.