Saktoth wrote:Exactly. Nihilism (and the internet) is what has kept me (relatively) sane for 10 years. Once you are brought back to ground zero and must live by what you think is important, it puts you back in control.
Isn't nihilism like being emo or something? then i wouldnt call myself as a nihilist... I've just accepted the truth. No sad feelings of it or anything, no anger, nothing, its alright for mysef, i can live my meaningless life without crying about it.
The Doctor's Book of Home Remedies, by the editors of Prevention Magazine Health Books
One of the infoboxes under Depression (copied word for word):
Helping Others Through Depression
What's the best thing to do if someone close to you gets depressed?
"Listen," says family therapist Robert Jaffe, Ph.D., "more than anything, your friend needs an ear."
If someone you care about seems depressed and hasn't said anything about it, go ahead and ask, "Do you feel depressed?" suggests Dr. Jaffe. Follow up with open-ended questions, like "When did you first start feeling this way?" This is a good question, says Dr. Jaffe, because determining when a depression began often helps uncover the incident or incidents that might have sparked it.
HEre are other helpful hints Dr. Jaffe recommends.
-As your friend opens up and starts talking about his depression, do your best to create a safe environment. Don't trivialize the situation by saying things like "Oh, cut it out, you have no reason to be depressed."
-Don't offer easy solutions like "You know, all you need is..." Instead, let the person find his own solutions, using you as a sounding board for ideas.
-Do try to get the depressed person involved in physical activities like exercise.
-Do try to keep the person interested in finding solutions. "Remember," says Dr. Jaffe, "depression" could be defined as a loss of interest in all things.
No experience of my own with depression, but I think this looks likely to help.
that does all seem like good 'common sense'(common sense not being all that common a thing) stuff. it all relies on someone a) noticing and b) caring enough to do something about it and actually help.
my family, and a good portion of my (close) friends know what is going on with me (as well as some work colleagues). i am not even 'checked up on' on a regular basis. oh sure, everyone cared when i was in hospital earlier in the year. but since then ive had very sporadic contact with my family (basically whenever I make the effort to contact them) and im at the point where im thinking "if people dont care enough to even drop me an email, a phone call or whatever, why should i be the one always having to make the first move?"
so yeh, my official message to the world is pretty much "fuck y'all"
We live in an exclusive individualistic sociaty. It's not 'normal' to check up on people, it's not 'normal' to invite people places if they haven't basically asked you first, it's not 'normal' to really go out of your way to give someone the time of day. There are people out there who don't give a crap about western normality, and if you're lucky enough to find someone like that don't ever let them go :), that being said, even if it's not right, sociaty expects you, as an individual, to maintain your own wellbeing to the best of your ability, even if most of them know you're basically incapable of it.
I'm not saying to buck up and get over it, I'm just saying, don't bother blaming your family and friends for not pushing into your life when you feel like you really need them to, it's not that they don't mean well, it's just that western people don't usually think about others for more than a few minutes a day.
SwiftSpear wrote:We live in an exclusive individualistic sociaty. It's not 'normal' to check up on people, it's not 'normal' to invite people places if they haven't basically asked you first, it's not 'normal' to really go out of your way to give someone the time of day. There are people out there who don't give a crap about western normality, and if you're lucky enough to find someone like that don't ever let them go :), that being said, even if it's not right, sociaty expects you, as an individual, to maintain your own wellbeing to the best of your ability, even if most of them know you're basically incapable of it.
I'm not saying to buck up and get over it, I'm just saying, don't bother blaming your family and friends for not pushing into your life when you feel like you really need them to, it's not that they don't mean well, it's just that western people don't usually think about others for more than a few minutes a day.
Those who do are outcast and their behaviour generally unacceptable.
the thing is, if i was seriously injured in a car crash, id be drowning in a sea of attempts at assistance, and understanding from family, friends and co-workers.
the reasoning behind it is simple. people can imagine being seriously injured or hurt in some physical way, they can even identify with people who have chronic illnesses. but the idea that someones mental state could affect their outlook to the point where they perform self-harming acts (cutting etc) or even suicide, is outside the realm of what people can actually deal with (constructively).
the common reaction to situations like mine consists of things like "snap out of it" "you have nothing to be depressed about" "dont be silly" "cheer up, its not that bad" etc etc.
but what was worst for me was when i was on medication, was when situations arose that usually id avoid (crowded places mainly; bars, malls etc) because they'd make me slightly uncomfortable, id start having major anxiety issues, so id (politely) refuse to even bother. there were a few well meaning people who did make the attempt after i got out of hospital, but their enthusiasm somewhat dried up when i said id rather just chill at home (or their place) with a couple of drinks and a movie or whatever, so they stopped offering to take me out to town or wherever.
i could feel it in their reactions "oh, dont even bother with him, he never wants to do anything."
the situation at work doesnt help either, a lot of the time i feel like im just a warm body, there to make up numbers, who only gets missed when someone wants something from me. i cant even explain how that feels, most people wouldnt treat a DOG like that.
Pressure, we all still love you. This is other peoples problem though, isnt it? Swift sums it up nicely. There is a general apathy towards other human beings. Truth be told, i wouldnt (personally) want someone to aggressively interpose themselves into my life, especially if i am giving them all the signs of just wanting to withdraw other human beings (which depressed people generally do).
It is somewhat of a catch 22 though. People dont want to be around depressed people and the best way to stop being depressed (in my experience with the clinically depressed) is to be around other people.
Isn't nihilism like being emo or something?
HAHAHAH.
No.
I've just accepted the truth. No sad feelings of it or anything, no anger, nothing, its alright for mysef, i can live my meaningless life without crying about it.
That, precisely, is nihilism. If it doesnt matter, why on earth would you cry about it?
Last edited by Saktoth on 01 Oct 2007, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.
If you think that life is not worth living for anymore, its your own choice. But it is also a fool's choice.
Life if something that was given to you by your parents, you didnt ask to be born. Life itself is the reason to live. You arent going to reincarnate or go to heaven or hell when you die, Instead you will simply cease to exsist, and personally i'd rather have bad experiences about life than no experiences at all.
The life that was given to you by your parents is not yours alone, It will impact your parents, your co-workers, and every other human around you. You cant simply say "sorry" in a suicide note and then call it all even. To repay all the debt of your parents raising you, even if you think they dont love you, is by living the life that was given to you in its full extent. Doing anything else is a choice of a weak-minded person.
im going to go right ahead and assume you've never suffered (and i mean suffer) from moderate/severe depression Sleska.
heres an exercise for the people for whom the content of this thread has no personal significance...
think back to the worst day you have had in the past 3 months, think of all the feelings, how it coloured your view of the world that day. now imagine if you had felt like that EVERY DAY for the past 3 months.
that is depression.
now imagine if every time you told someone about how you feel they just spouted crap like "harden up" "snap out of it" or "life is so worth living, why would you want to throw it all away?" how would that feel? or how about they simply ignore the problem, pretending theres nothing wrong? or simply ignore YOU, cutting off any possibly meaningful contact.
do you see where im going with this? if tomorrow morning on the way to work i was injured in a car accident, or if i found i had cancer, i would have no shortage of assistance/support, from all areas of my life.
clinical depression is REAL, and no less debilitating than a broken leg, it invades every aspect of your life, makes even relatively simple tasks feel like insurmountable obstacles. (and im talking about shit like going to the supermarket to do the shopping) but, for me personally, the hardest thing about dealing with my depression is the way OTHER PEOPLE handle it, by trivialising it, by ignoring that theres even a problem, refusing to acknowledge the need for help, ignoring or even demeaning the person affected by it.
Trust me pressure, as someone with a chronic illness- they do that to us too. Granted its a pain condition and i still have both my legs- but even for people with no legs, they get the same thing. 'Look at those olympians with no legs. Why cant you be like them? Its not all that bad. There are kids starving in Africa right now. You are just letting it slow you down. You're using it as an excuse not to do anything with your life.' etc.
Sleksa wouldnt post if he didnt care about you. Deep inside, Sleksa is just a big ole softy. He just believes in tough love is all, that the best way to deal with your problems is a swift kick in the pants and a 'Get on your way now, son'. Its probably how he deals with his own problems, one of those self flagellating 'pain is weakness leaving your body!' types. Its just another way of dealing with your problems.
perhaps. i still think the exercise is a good one.
although Sleska's post DOES apply to the 'emo' "omg my partner dumped me/lost my job/etc so im gonna kill myself" types. in that case the answer IS simply "harden the fuck up, life moves on"
tombom wrote:I know somebody who said WWII wasn't significant because people are starving in Africa.
there wouldnt be any starving people in africa if people would STOP FEEDING THEM. it sounds terrible, i know. but the feast-famine cycle is natural, when a population outgrows its ability to feed itself, it starves until balance is restored.
do you see where im going with this? if tomorrow morning on the way to work i was injured in a car accident, or if i found i had cancer, i would have no shortage of assistance/support, from all areas of my life.
Do you honestly believe this? When i broke my right arm in a accident, i got it packed up in a hospital and after a week i was back at school, i didnt get any assistance to get my clothing on or help in writing my notes. And it wasnt easy to put a plastic bag around the wrapped hand using your left hand when going to a shower ~__~
People only care about you when you are of some value to them, you work for them, you are their husband/wife/son/friend. But if they have no value for you, theyll just ignore you. And its a dream that someone from somewhere will come to pull you back on track. The need to get better starts from you, and i cant help it. Nor can anyone else. Its up to you to recognice that there are far more positive things than negative ones I and your friends can point you to them but they cant make you acknowledge them.
Sleksa wouldnt post if he didnt care about you. Deep inside, Sleksa is just a big ole softy. He just believes in tough love is all, that the best way to deal with your problems is a swift kick in the pants and a 'Get on your way now, son'. Its probably how he deals with his own problems, one of those self flagellating 'pain is weakness leaving your body!' types. Its just another way of dealing with your problems.
The finns have a saying ; "there's nothing you cant cure with alcohol".
But on the other hand finns also have one of the highest suicide percentages in europe.
do you see where im going with this? if tomorrow morning on the way to work i was injured in a car accident, or if i found i had cancer, i would have no shortage of assistance/support, from all areas of my life.
Do you honestly believe this? When i broke my right arm in a accident, i got it packed up in a hospital and after a week i was back at school, i didnt get any assistance to get my clothing on or help in writing my notes. And it wasnt easy to put a plastic bag around the wrapped hand using your left hand when going to a shower ~__~
People only care about you when you are of some value to them, you work for them, you are their husband/wife/son/friend. But if they have no value for you, theyll just ignore you. And its a dream that someone from somewhere will come to pull you back on track. The need to get better starts from you, and i cant help it. Nor can anyone else. Its up to you to recognice that there are far more positive things than negative ones I and your friends can point you to them but they cant make you acknowledge them.
Sleksa wouldnt post if he didnt care about you. Deep inside, Sleksa is just a big ole softy. He just believes in tough love is all, that the best way to deal with your problems is a swift kick in the pants and a 'Get on your way now, son'. Its probably how he deals with his own problems, one of those self flagellating 'pain is weakness leaving your body!' types. Its just another way of dealing with your problems.
The finns have a saying ; "there's nothing you cant cure with alcohol".
But on the other hand finns also have one of the highest suicide percentages in europe.
i fractured my wrist in senior year, and DROVE myself to the a&e to get it plastered up (and i had to skip class to do it), but thats not the point. for the most part there was great understanding, from friends, teachers and family, and i pretty much got a months worth of 'free ride' at school.
i feel compelled to mention that i am NOT suicidal at present. but believe me when i say this, compared to 6 months ago im a hell of a lot better now. And while i still have trouble coping on an almost daily basis, i can look forwards and see things getting better because i can look back and see that they have.
tbh, ive entered what will probably be the hardest part for me, getting people to acknowledge that there is a problem, and that while i dont want or need any special/preferential treatment, some help and support would be awesome (pretty much doesnt apply to anyone on this board, but yeh)
Well, I can really only speak about this from the point of view of someone who's been only mildly depressed (if any form of depression can truly be mild, at any rate) - but that moment when you first open your eyes in the morning and realize that you are, in fact, awake, is downright annoying. I'd lay there and hope for at the very least an out-of-body experience so I wouldn't have to physically go anywhere. I recall I was always tired, regardless of when I went to bed. I think the lack of energy was the worst for me.
I don't really think I'm better..far from it, but then, I know I didn't have it quite as bad as some people do. Mine, though still present, fades in and out..and I'm fairly capable of knocking it out of myself, even if all I have the chance to do is have a good scream. On a side note to that - punching a wall is not always smart.
I did have some lower points. In grade 7, I did make an attempt on a trip with some people to down a few pills - which for some reason or other didn't seem to work as planned, and I ended up still here, as you can see. I coped out of necessity from there on, but it was a bit shit.
Around the end of January/beginning of February this year, I had my own little break down. I don't know how many people have had one/seen someone have one, but they aren't fun. I was found on the bed, curled up in a ball, shaking like an addict, tears streaming down my face, and simply making little small gasping sounds like I couldn't breathe.
I spent the worst part of a week or so not being able to get words out. Seriously. I was doing all my correspondence via a notepad and pen.
Not cool.
I still like to think of myself, despite that, as a fairly strong person. I mean, I'm still here. I'm just...not perfect. I admit to it. I think being able to admit to it, and knowing I can try to work around all this/change it, helps me.
I'm probably not a good example in the long run of someone who can be a rock or whatever, but I'm just still here. I don't plan to go anywhere.
Also, I may not be that great at helping people try to cope either, but I do try that as well. I talk to a friend who has dealt with it for decades nearly, and she is still here. Of course, she chalks it up to sticking to treatments and her husband, who stuck by her through everything, even during the 6 years or so they dated before they got married.
It's not always easy to be with someone who has depression, her husband attests to it...but if you have enough love, determination, and the patience to try to understand and listen, you can help - or at least, he's helped her.
She tells me she wouldn't be where she is now if it wasn't for him. Cheesy? Maybe. But hey, shockingly, love works. Whether it be romantic, or just friendly, it can.
Alright, this Wall of Text is coming to an end now. Ciao.
