Spring:1944 dev and testing

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 07 Aug 2007, 17:19

any closer to that demo release? starting to get bored of winning with epic infantry tides, pinning cant come fast enough.

Nemo · Post by **Nemo** » 07 Aug 2007, 18:10

Getting there. almost done with the ruskies. only USA left to implement.

then of course balance is going to take a little bit.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 07 Aug 2007, 19:26

A. Does Ivory test with us?
B. Just call for me when you need testing, as usual, Nemo.
C. Good to hear.
D. I'm posting from a Dell Ultraportable running MyDSL. I feel like a rebel and a poor man at the same time...

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 12 Aug 2007, 00:14

Finally did the sandbag MGs. Pics in pic thread.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 12 Aug 2007, 11:28

i wasnt invited to test. i do play alot though.
things to change imo;

the flags (mex equivalent) need a much larger footprint so you notice when you have accidently dragged a line of them. it would be nice to surround flags with sandbags or crates or somthing to make them more obvious and take up more space, as atm they are so small you often dont even notice an enemy flag when playing from zoomed out as you do when things get big scale

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 13 Aug 2007, 00:47

You can test if you'd like. We've got together a build that Nemo dumped in our laps with British,German and Soviet units. It needs lots of testing, mainly for balance and such.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 13 Aug 2007, 02:33

I will be available for regular-ish testing in September, by the by, and I hope to finally have enough people around then to work with Nemo as opposed to facing him...

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 13 Aug 2007, 16:21

I too can do some testing

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 13 Aug 2007, 19:54

german infantry should have the highest HP. outnumbered, they dominated most of euprope through organisation, superior equipement and planning.

british infantry have no reason to have ultra HP, order should be somthing like:

best

german
british/US
russian

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 13 Aug 2007, 20:52

The Germans actually created elite SS squads from those they conquered - they supplemented their military power with the populations of a dozen European nations. Anybody recall the Order of St. George, organized for British traitors I digress... suffice to say, I don't support that assertion of yours.

I don't think HP is a real balancing factor between factions for infantry. Some infantry on each side will be tougher or weaker, but in the end they're just people wearing cloth with firearms. The tactical prowess and charisma of the leadership give infantry power, not some inborn hardiness or hackney bonus due to marginally different equipment.

1v0ry_k1ng · Post by **1v0ry_k1ng** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:02

HP is representitive of their training I think, which is why russian conscripts have such low HP atm

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:32

What ivory said.

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 13 Aug 2007, 21:53

I wonder...

French, Italian, Arab and Indian troops... how would they stack up? China? The Poles?

I would think the HP unconnected to training for the most part. Some change for better disguise/movement training, but no more than 15% variation either way for a troop due to that. Training would be more important to accuracy, reload time, etc...

Guessmyname · Post by **Guessmyname** » 13 Aug 2007, 23:18

Also true. It would also affect how good they are at taking cover and so on, which is best shown through hp, I reckon

SpikedHelmet · Post by **SpikedHelmet** » 14 Aug 2007, 01:03

HP is determined by several factors. Generally, the "survivability" (arbitrarily determined) of the average soldier from that side, and, of course, balancing -- Soviet troops, for instance, have such a low HP because they show up in numbers far far greater than anyone else. Having them at similar HP to the others would heavily tip balancing in their favour.

german infantry should have the highest HP. outnumbered, they dominated most of euprope through organisation, superior equipement and planning.

british infantry have no reason to have ultra HP, order should be somthing like:

best

german
british/US
russian

Actually, all-told, the Germans managed to raise approx. 300 divisions during the war, which is about the same as the Soviet Union, and more than the British and Americans combined (IIRC). Like Neddie said, the Germans recruited/forced troops into their armed forces from a variety of different nationalities (like that one Chinese soldier who was captured by the Japanese, forced to fight for them, captured by the Russians, forced to fight for them, and then captured by the Germans and, yep, forced to fight for them! Until being captured by the US Army. They didn't force him to fight. By 1944 the Germans were also recruiting older/less capable soldiers to bolster their army -- much of the soldiers making up the Germany army in France in 1944-1945 were older (or younger) conscripts not given much more training than the average Red Army soldier.

The British were by and large the most consistently well-trained army at the time. They also had experience to match the Germans. They're also the least numerous.

yuritch · Post by **yuritch** » 14 Aug 2007, 07:22

Where did you find that story about Chinese soldier? I'd like to know more about that (esp. how he could be captured by USSR from the Japanese and later by Germans considering that USSR was neutral to Japan up until summer 1945 when Germany was already gone. Or was he captured during 1936-1937 accidents?).

Warlord Zsinj · Post by **Warlord Zsinj** » 14 Aug 2007, 17:45

I've actually heard that story a number of times, including some reputable media sources (newspapers, etc).

Pressure Line · Post by **Pressure Line** » 16 Aug 2007, 12:56

rudimentary suspension for vehicles with beam axles (ie ww2 era trucks etc)

Felix the Cat · Post by **Felix the Cat** » 20 Aug 2007, 23:10

I'm still here... sort of.

I've had seven different appointments/visits from cable installers and repairmen, and my home Internet connection is still not working.

I do have a nice shiny new computer though (HP Compaq nx9420), not sure how it runs Spring yet, going to DL the new version and see how it does right now.

Anyways, when everything is fixed, I'll be able to help test/model/etc.

On the infantry HP issue - it is true that the Germans were, as a whole, more effective than the other nations in the European theater. Military historian Trevor Dupuy constructed a program to analyze battle results, and determined that one German soldier was worth around 1.2 British or American soldiers, and around 2 Soviet soldiers. This advantage held in nearly all conditions - on offense, on defense, in fair weather, in bad weather, in open terrain, in difficult terrain, and so on. It would be historically correct to give German infantry 120% the HP of Americans. It wouldn't have much effect on gameplay, though, I don't think.

Another infantry note: throughout the war, the British were loathe to sustain infantry casualties, as compared to the Americans, Germans, and Soviets, for two important reasons. Great Britain's population has always been substantially lower than that of the other European powers; thus, each casualty affected the British more than other countries. Furthermore, the British had to consider what would happen after the war. They had a very large empire of increasingly restless people to control and secure, and this would require a sizeable military. If all of Britain's military-age population died on the fields of France and Italy, none would be left to maintain the post-war British Empire.

Make British infantry slower to build, but keep vehicles in the same range as other countries?

Neddie · Post by **Neddie** » 21 Aug 2007, 04:45

Back again, now with a higher resolution.

Spring RTS Engine

Spring:1944 dev and testing