Absolute Annihilation: Spring[old]
Moderator: Moderators
Think about it: if you fired a gun at something, you have two ways to shoot at it. You can either shoot slightly above it so that the bullet drops a couple inches and hits its target(xta punishers), Or you can shoot it up in the air so that it arcs over and comes down on top of the target. If you shoot in between those two extremes you will not impact the target; it's just impossible. I don't know how to make this any more clear, an unguided projectile cannot be fired in between these two extremes and still hit its target without violating physics.
Hmmph
I weep for the math skills of the younger generation. This is basic geometry. Play some Scorched Earth, and keep your power constant - there are only two ways to shoot a given target - low and high. The only way to get the middle and not overshoot the target is to tweak the muzzle velocity, which will reduce the projectile speed.
Not that it might not be the best approach - have a class of guns with a fixed firing angle and a variable muzzle velocity. It would be wierd though - slow-shots for close targets, fast-shots for long-distance ones.
Not that it might not be the best approach - have a class of guns with a fixed firing angle and a variable muzzle velocity. It would be wierd though - slow-shots for close targets, fast-shots for long-distance ones.
Code: Select all
1.3 --> 1.31
"Shodan", "Blocker", "Radical" removed, beinging
total unit count down to 393
Arm and Core HLT damage boosted to 185 (150, 175)
Arm "Spider" speed reduced to 2.2 (3)
Arm "Spider" firing rate reduced to 1.75 (1.2)
Arm "Spider" is now truly all-terrain, with a
proper spider movementclass
Arm "Spider" size doubled
Arm "Spider" costs and HP doubled
Core "Sumo" movement speed reduced to 0.5 (0.6)
Core "Sumo" firing rate reduced 15%
"Bulldog" metal cost increased to 894 (824)
"Bulldog" armor increased to 5400 (5000)
"Goliath" metal cost increased to 1207 (967)
"Goliath" armor reduced to 5800 (6000)
Core "Bladewing" firing arc fixed
Increased d-gun cost to 500 energy per shot (400)
Decreased d-gun firing rate to 1.5 (1.2)
"CORE_LASERH1" weapon class removed
Heavy laser turrets now do reduced damage vs
aircraft, as it should be
Mercury/Screamer damage doubled to 2000 (1000)
Mercury/Screamer range increased to 3200 (2200)
Mobile flak firepower reduced about 40%
Moho Exploiter now fires all rockets from the
correct place
Deflector repulsion force halved
Forged variant missing COB file error fixed
[quote="Caydr"]
Poor Drexion miscalculated...
The changes to the EMP spider sound solid, will have to see how murderous BigSteve is with the new variant...
Questions:
1) Is it worth looking at the HLT turn/fire rates now that you've reduced damage against air targets? [and gotten rid of the plasma batteries]
2) How is the deflector using E now?
As usual, feel free to ignore...
Code: Select all
1.3 --> 1.31
"Shodan", "Blocker", "Radical" removed, beinging
total unit count down to 393
Poor Drexion miscalculated...
The changes to the EMP spider sound solid, will have to see how murderous BigSteve is with the new variant...
Questions:
1) Is it worth looking at the HLT turn/fire rates now that you've reduced damage against air targets? [and gotten rid of the plasma batteries]
2) How is the deflector using E now?
As usual, feel free to ignore...
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Doomweaver
- Posts: 704
- Joined: 30 Oct 2004, 14:14
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
Rocket Kbots and light artillery kbots need a slight nerf so that peewees and AKs can acctually compete with them in some way. Currently everyone who goes kbots spams the hell out of those two classes because in numbers they can take down LLTs while barely taking damage, and HLTs with only slight losses, as well as being nearly impervious to any peewee or AK attack because they just rape the lesser kbot effortlessly. All 3 combat Kbots should be useful in thier own way, and currently only 2 are.
Pewees and aks can do some damage if you get them in close, Ive lost a 4 or 5 rockos to 4 peewees on a few occasions, peewees and aks cost pratically nothing also... they arent supposed to be able to compete toe to toe with a rocko... if the rockos get nerfed so peewees and aks can take them out with ease... whats the point in having them in the first place?
peewees are very useful as scouts and for killing economy stuff like mexes and windmills, they aren't a front line attack unit.
I think they are perfect as they are...
peewees are very useful as scouts and for killing economy stuff like mexes and windmills, they aren't a front line attack unit.
I think they are perfect as they are...
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smokingwreckage
- Posts: 327
- Joined: 09 Apr 2005, 11:40
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
A level 2 unit, some beam lazers maby, and some thuds or hammers. Thuds acctually drop rockos in a 1 to 1 ratio, but then they cost more so it makes sense.smokingwreckage wrote:What's a counter to a massive block of Rockos?
I think the bigger problem with thuds or rockos is the ease with which they massicar defences. peewees aren't supposed to counter them I realize, but it would be nice if they were at least passible as an attack force. It's thier build time more then anything, only slightly lower then rocko, but they don't do virtually any damage compared to the time it takes to pump them out.
Most of those changes sound fine to me, Caydr...But I believe you should just remove the arm EMP spider. The changes, in totality, will completely obliterate the unit. Or leave it in, i'll never build it and I can obliterate the poor folks who waste resources on it...heh.
Arm "Spider" speed reduced to 2.2 (3)
Arm "Spider" firing rate reduced to 1.75 (1.2)
These two changes are a big nerf already. Much slower (so takes longer to get within range) and fires roughly 46% slower. Thats a BIG change. I think these two are fine though and should balance the unit.
Arm "Spider" is now truly all-terrain, with a
proper spider movementclass
Nice little tweak, not needed IMO.
Arm "Spider" size doubled
This change will actually hurt the spider quite a bit. From making things hit it easier to letting less of them fit in the same space.
Arm "Spider" costs and HP doubled
This is the nail in the coffin for the unit. Completely obliterates it. This, combined with the fire rate reduction of 45%, will in effect have the result of the new spider firing at 1/3 the old rate. That means if it fired 3 times a minute, it will now fire roughly 1 time per minute. So not only is the spider
now 73.3% of its old speed(With a small radius weapon so it takes longer to reach opponent), larger so it takes damage faster and can fit less in the same space, but its disabling capability is now a THIRD of what it used to be. The biggest thing about disabling is that the effects *wear off*...So its all about disabling quickly and keeping it disabled. If it takes 2.92 times as long to disable, the first disabling shot may have worn off by then! So in fact it could take even longer than 3 times as long to disable than before. I really wish you would try some of these changes at one time...See how they do...then try more changes if your still not happy after feedback. Ah well, no biggie =). Adaptation time.
-Drexion
p.s. Btw Mother, i'm sure the deadly BigSteve will just find another sharp knife to stick into people. Its the person, not the tool.
Arm "Spider" speed reduced to 2.2 (3)
Arm "Spider" firing rate reduced to 1.75 (1.2)
These two changes are a big nerf already. Much slower (so takes longer to get within range) and fires roughly 46% slower. Thats a BIG change. I think these two are fine though and should balance the unit.
Arm "Spider" is now truly all-terrain, with a
proper spider movementclass
Nice little tweak, not needed IMO.
Arm "Spider" size doubled
This change will actually hurt the spider quite a bit. From making things hit it easier to letting less of them fit in the same space.
Arm "Spider" costs and HP doubled
This is the nail in the coffin for the unit. Completely obliterates it. This, combined with the fire rate reduction of 45%, will in effect have the result of the new spider firing at 1/3 the old rate. That means if it fired 3 times a minute, it will now fire roughly 1 time per minute. So not only is the spider
now 73.3% of its old speed(With a small radius weapon so it takes longer to reach opponent), larger so it takes damage faster and can fit less in the same space, but its disabling capability is now a THIRD of what it used to be. The biggest thing about disabling is that the effects *wear off*...So its all about disabling quickly and keeping it disabled. If it takes 2.92 times as long to disable, the first disabling shot may have worn off by then! So in fact it could take even longer than 3 times as long to disable than before. I really wish you would try some of these changes at one time...See how they do...then try more changes if your still not happy after feedback. Ah well, no biggie =). Adaptation time.
-Drexion
p.s. Btw Mother, i'm sure the deadly BigSteve will just find another sharp knife to stick into people
. Its the person, not the tool.I agree 100% with bigSteve. I too think AK/peewee are already quite useful, although Steve uses them alot better than I do! I don't like rockos myself... Their good in small numbers (although you can dodge their rockets nicely if you micromanage well) but in larger numbers they fire upon the backs of their comrades! Thats not fun =p. Lots of ways to stop rockos, explore the other units a little (Both in kbot and vehicle lab...air of course). I admit that I usually build a few rockos in beginning, as like I said, their good in small numbers...but I tend to quickly phase out of them.
-Drexion
-Drexion
Re: the spider
Drexion, I think the idea was that Caydr was trying to restore the Spider to playing more like the OTA version. It had gotten a complete 180 from it's original form. Perhaps crank up the stun damage of the spider so that units take longer to recover from it's effects? That would make a nice difference from the Bladewing's "fly through and stun everything momentarily" approach.
Pxtl,
I'm not going to attempt to read motive into these changes, hehe. AA is already so different from OTA (and better in my opinion) that it would be a shame if it kept gravitating closer-and-closer to OTA. I was just giving my frank (if somewhat blunt) opinion on the changes...I do think these changes, in totality, will be squashing the spider like a bug (Sorry couldn't resist the pun).
Making units take longer to recover from the disabling effects will help a little but making it take 3 times longer to actually disable (ok, 2.92 times) is still wayyyyy overkill. Keep in mind, this unit does not actually KILL the enemy. Ah well, like I said, no biggie =) I'll just build other units. The sumo/goliath/(and the bulldog a bit less) were also all reduced in effectiveness, this will open up new tactical possibilities that I need to explore =).
You know how i'd balance the EMP spider if I had a chance? Keep it exactly like it was before...Make it disable something just as quickly...but make units recover from its disabling effects twice as fast! (or three times). This will make it much much harder to keep units disabled. EMP spiders would then be MUCH MUCH less effective against smaller units (because of the large numbers) but would still be useful against bigger units. You could then focus your spiders on disabling a big threat and keep it disable...The opponent's leftover army can focus on killing enough spiders to free the disabled-unit from the spider's web! (lol sorry, couldn't resist again).
Ah well.
-Drexion
I'm not going to attempt to read motive into these changes, hehe. AA is already so different from OTA (and better in my opinion) that it would be a shame if it kept gravitating closer-and-closer to OTA. I was just giving my frank (if somewhat blunt) opinion on the changes...I do think these changes, in totality, will be squashing the spider like a bug (Sorry couldn't resist the pun).
Making units take longer to recover from the disabling effects will help a little but making it take 3 times longer to actually disable (ok, 2.92 times) is still wayyyyy overkill. Keep in mind, this unit does not actually KILL the enemy. Ah well, like I said, no biggie =) I'll just build other units. The sumo/goliath/(and the bulldog a bit less) were also all reduced in effectiveness, this will open up new tactical possibilities that I need to explore =).
You know how i'd balance the EMP spider if I had a chance? Keep it exactly like it was before...Make it disable something just as quickly...but make units recover from its disabling effects twice as fast! (or three times). This will make it much much harder to keep units disabled. EMP spiders would then be MUCH MUCH less effective against smaller units (because of the large numbers) but would still be useful against bigger units. You could then focus your spiders on disabling a big threat and keep it disable...The opponent's leftover army can focus on killing enough spiders to free the disabled-unit from the spider's web! (lol sorry, couldn't resist again).
Ah well.
-Drexion
i would have to agree with drexion's proposal for spiders. ive always seen any stun/disable weapon no matter the game as a way to remove part of a defense/offense so that u can take out the remainder. takin out a heavy hitter makes the most sense cause if u deny ur opponent taht units power u can gain the upper hand thru less casualties and the ability to attack without fear of retaliation.
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
I tried that just yesterday, Fizz... doesn't do any good unfortunately. With units having this collision sphere the size they do, it's impossible.
Spiders aren't being nerfed as badly as you make out Drex. I don't know where you get the wild figure of it being one third as effective, but it's wrong. Changes sound big on paper but aren't so ingame. A change from 1.25 to 1.75 can barely be perceived. A change from 3 to 2.2 still means they're pretty much the fastest thing going besides fleas and other ultra-light units.
Spiders aren't being nerfed as badly as you make out Drex. I don't know where you get the wild figure of it being one third as effective, but it's wrong. Changes sound big on paper but aren't so ingame. A change from 1.25 to 1.75 can barely be perceived. A change from 3 to 2.2 still means they're pretty much the fastest thing going besides fleas and other ultra-light units.
1 spider will disable 46% worse than before, right? Due to the fire-rate change...Thats fine...
The problem arises with the doubling in cost. Now the same resources as before, say 10k for simplicity (say cost was 1k now is 2k) will build 5 spiders...before it could build 10... That means that this change makes the disabling ability of 10k resources in spiders half what it was before...Combine the two changes...
Total disabling ability? 1/2.92 what it was before. Hehe, thats how I did the math.
I'll be doing testing once the new-version comes out, definitely. But my first impression is that this will gut the unit...We'll see, maybe i'm completely wrong.
-Drexion
The problem arises with the doubling in cost. Now the same resources as before, say 10k for simplicity (say cost was 1k now is 2k) will build 5 spiders...before it could build 10... That means that this change makes the disabling ability of 10k resources in spiders half what it was before...Combine the two changes...
Total disabling ability? 1/2.92 what it was before. Hehe, thats how I did the math.
I'll be doing testing once the new-version comes out, definitely. But my first impression is that this will gut the unit...We'll see, maybe i'm completely wrong.
-Drexion